The political divide on this forum...

[fatty]

...is getting pretty annoying. I have trolled on this forum for a few years before I started posting and it seems to me that things have not been this bad in my time.

Yes, we all have our opinions about Islam, terrorism, Israel, left, right, liberals, conservatives, etc. etc. I enjoy friendly debate as much as any of you but some posts here have ranged from carrying subtle unfriendly undertones to being outright insulting. I am not posting this to present examples or point fingers; members from all sides have been tense lately, including myself.

So please, let's all step back, take a deep breath, and repeat after me: "there no place like submarines." What? You've forgotten the common thread that brings us here to mingle like civilized, friendly adults? Here are some pictures to bring you back to Earth/THE OCEAN:



SUBSIM.

[cobalt]

you're right

[Onkel Neal]

I agree. Seems like we have slowly gathered a collection of people of all political stripes who want to be provacative and stir stuff up. The General Topics forum is intended for Subsim folks to discuss general topics, not mainly politics. And to discuss these topics as friends, not rivals.

The understanding, a gentleman's agreement, has been it is ok to discuss political issues and world events, as long as everyone shows restraint and these topics do not dominate the forum. But over the last year, we've gotten more and more away from that. The more this goes on, the closer I am to making this a non-politics forum.

[Enigma]

Easy fix? Make a "Politics" forum.

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by Enigma

Easy fix? Make a "Politics" forum.

I wouldn't have a problem with that "fix" if people just intelligently discussed politics. But don't think for a second that's going to happen on the interweb. A more aptly named poltical forum for here (or any simulation internet forum that has had a Current Events board) would be the, "Baiting, **** stirring/slinging, pinko lefties vs. fascist righties fight to the death corner". I for the life of me can't figure out why Neal pays the bandwith for people to smear this kind of stuff across his general forum as is. He's a far kinder man than I. I completely agree that SubSim should be a place for SubSim fans to unite, not facilitate divisions within those that play submarine simulations.

PD

[Mush Martin]

Well Hit

[joea]

I agree 100%, I enjoy debating politics...not fighting the verbal equivalent of [insert bloodiest historical battle you can think of here]...but could live without it. The problem is larger than just politics, it's people not listening (or reading) to others. I have had that heppen to me a lot lately with posts and points of mine ignored or misunderstood, on purpose or not.

I still love this site however and think it usually is fantastic.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

I wouldn't have a problem with that "fix" if people just intelligently discussed politics. But don't think for a second that's going to happen on the interweb. A more aptly named poltical forum for here (or any simulation internet forum that has had a Current Events board) would be the, "Baiting, **** stirring/slinging, pinko lefties vs. fascist righties fight to the death corner". I for the life of me can't figure out why Neal pays the bandwith for people to smear this kind of stuff across his general forum as is. He's a far kinder man than I. I completely agree that SubSim should be a place for SubSim fans to unite, not facilitate divisions within those that play submarine simulations.

PD

That sums up my thoughts exactly. I could make a "political" forum, even make it a "sub-forum" and bury it, so to speak, so only those determined to antagonize each other will dwell there. Problem is, after a period of time, we would have the same problem all over again. I would be getting PMs from Joe saying Bill is flaming, or Gus is calling people nazis, etc. and like to said, that's not the reason we pay $600 each month for servers and hosting. I prefer to re-use the feeble solution we've always used, which is when things get out of hand, we collectively agree to chill. Historically, most people in the Subsim forums agree, no kind of forum changes or enforcement is needed. We have people of all kinds here and the few who cannot get along will be asked to take their agendas elsewhere. Let them call Air America or Rush Limbaugh, or post on any of a thousand forums where people daily try to dismember each other. We don't want that atmosphere here.

[ReallyDedPoet]

When you have people from all over the world coming together with different backgrounds, beliefs you are bound to have disagreements, conflict.

There are many times I have seen posts where you say " wtf " , but you have to see the big-picture before judging ( where the person is from, read some earlier posts, context, etc. ) or making a comment. Plus if you don't like it or agree, you can go to another thread or ignore it.

When things have gotten out of hand the Moderators and Neal have done a great job of reeling people back in

Long live Subsim

RDP

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

That sums up my thoughts exactly. I could make a "political" forum, even make it a "sub-forum" and bury it, so to speak, so only those determined to antagonize each other will dwell there. Problem is, after a period of time, we would have the same problem all over again. I would be getting PMs from Joe saying Bill is flaming, or Gus is calling people nazis, etc. and like to said, that's not the reason we pay $600 each month for servers and hosting. I prefer to re-use the feeble solution we've always used, which is when things get out of hand, we collectively agree to chill. Historically, most people in the Subsim forums agree, no kind of forum changes or enforcement is needed. We have people of all kinds here and the few who cannot get along will be asked to take their agendas elsewhere. Let them call Air America or Rush Limbaugh, or post on any of a thousand forums where people daily try to dismember each other. We don't want that atmosphere here.

Just make a discalimer - enter at your own risk! And state that these kinds of things will generally be ignored!

-S

[Drebbel]

Originally Posted by Enigma

Easy fix? Make a "Politics" forum.

That was also proposed about a year ago. But majority said NO, probably because nobody would visit that forum :p IIRC the proposal was to make a general forum, and a general navy forum.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by fatty

Here are some pictures to bring you back to Earth:

All I see on those pics is not earth, but water!?

Originally Posted by jumpy

the only forum where I exercise my prerogative to use the ignore list for those persons who I just cannot be doing with

.

I've always thought this a bad idea. Ignoring or blocking the opinion of others diminishes your understanding of, not only the thread but also the mindset of those with whom you may disagree.

My modus operandi is to not block any view or member of the forum. This does not mean I have to attend every argument to which I am invited.

[jumpy]

Originally Posted by waste gate

Originally Posted by jumpy

.

I've always thought this a bad idea. Ignoring or blocking the opinion of others diminishes your understanding of, not only the thread but also the mindset of those with whom you may disagree.

My modus operandi is to not block any view or member of the forum. This does not mean I have to attend every argument to which I am invited.

There is some merit in what you say about listening to the other opinion, but at the risk of trotting out a tired old cliché:

I'd rather suffer fools than bigot's, any day.

With that in mind I am forced to conclude that (sometimes) there are fewer fools than bigots here at times. That might sound a bit harsh, but in some topics it is spot on.
Sadly there's only so many times I can listen to the same old twaddle before I make a more permanent judgement regarding an individual or member. It's the same for me in real life (as it were) you get three strikes and then I have no more time for you; Life is too short to spend eking it out over time wasters and the older I get the more I seem to loose patience with loud-mouths and anyone with too heavy a chip on their shoulder. They won't thank you for your time, so why bother?

Don't get me wrong, I don't add people willy-nilly to my ignore list just because they have a different opinion to me, there's more to it than that, especially when the discourse turns to the inevitable personal slight, which round here is pretty much unforgivable if no direct or public apology is forthcoming.
In all my time here I have never felt the need to publically insult or deride another member for their beliefs or understanding, regardless of how the conversation goes. But if others are not prepared to extend the same courtesy from behind the safety of their monitor...

Poking a sly jibe in the spirit of humour is altogether different when a thread diverges in humerous lines, in which case the context should be obvious to all who read it.

On the whole I like it here, but again I must reiterate; the ignore list can make this a peaceful place to be when so desired.

Originally Posted by waste gate

Originally Posted by jumpy

.

I've always thought this a bad idea. Ignoring or blocking the opinion of others diminishes your understanding of, not only the thread but also the mindset of those with whom you may disagree.

My modus operandi is to not block any view or member of the forum. This does not mean I have to attend every argument to which I am invited.

What's wrong with sticking one's fingers in their ears, and saying "La la la la la la la la la la I can't hear you la la la la la la la la"?

That sounds like mature adult behavior and somebody with razor sharp debating skills to me. Above all else it is eminently a sign of somebody that reasons with their intellect instead of their emotions; out of sight out of mind. Such a person knows all that they need to, they need not be bothered with trivialities such as details; their mind is made up.

Furthermore, it allows them to coolly and calmly formulate a rational response predicated on facts and logic, rather than firing off rash responses in haste. Not only that, but after the other person has finished talking, the listener can take the fingers out of their ears and continue the debate unfettered without any emotional baggage respecting whatever was said.

Ever talk to somebody that you know isn't listening to and trying to comprehend what is being said, but instead are thinking about what they're going to say next? Usually, but not very often, these people will capitulate to truth, facts and logic only after trying to stymie the argument with fallacies, shouting one down (so as to prevent debte), ad hominem and when that fails they stick their fingers in their ears and say "La la la la la la la la la I can't hear you la la la la la la la". That's when you know you won; 'cause they're pissed and you're not.