New guns jamming in combat!

[moose1am]

OK I just saw on future weapons a story about a new US gun that will be put into operation. Some of these are being used in Iraq today. The bad thing about these new guns is that they get jammed when exposed to sand and dirt. Now the Army is ordering another 100,000 of these new weapons before they even get the ones in operation fixed.

This reminds me of the Mark ?? torpedoes that were used by the USA during the first few years of WWII. By now everyone knows that story. If not do a Google search on defective WWII torpedoes.

And everyone should know about the first M16's that were used in Nam. They too jammed easily when they got dirty. These rifles had to be modified to free jammed cartridges.

No one wants to get in a firefight and have their weapon jam.

It's bad enough that our guys are being sent to police Iraq while there is a civil war going on. But to send them into battle again with defective weapons is CRIMINAL.

I am going to call my senator and congressman and demand that they look into these new guns and get them fixed before the Army orders another 100,000 of these defective guns.

These guns work great when they are clean but in the middle east where they are needed it's impossible to keep them clean with all the blowing sand and fine grit.

I did see a gun being use on the Future Weapons show where they laid the gun down in sand and then picked it up and used it and it worked. But when our soldiers start complaining about their guns jamming while in a firefight that's the last straw.

We need to give our guys the best weapons possible if we are going to send them into harms way. They should not have to die needlessly.

[SUBMAN1]

What gun? Can't call anyone without knowing what it is.

-S

[CptSimFreak]

Originally Posted by moose1am

And everyone should know about the first M16's that were used in Nam. They too jammed easily when they got dirty. These rifles had to be modified to free jammed cartridges.

M16 was fixed? That's news to me since I used M16-A2,A3 and A4 and not of them were fixed. They would jamm at the shooting range (ideal conditions, no dirt) after less than 70 rounds.....

[elite_hunter_sh3]

AK 47s FOR EVERYBODY!!!!, seriously only reason y america wont use the ak 47 is because russia will say "o so now u r using OUR weapons" then all the flaming will begin, america has THE best technology in the world for their airplanes etc, their guns r so high tech... yet they still jam by some lousy sand and dirt, while a gun made in the late 40's early 50's still better then those guns today, if america switched to ak47 anmd used their technology god knows wut kind of crazy high powered gun they wud have,

[CptSimFreak]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

What gun? Can't call anyone without knowing what it is.

-S

It's probably XM-8, although I didn't know they entered combat..

[elite_hunter_sh3]

Originally Posted by CptSimFreak

M16 was fixed? That's news to me since I used M16-A2,A3 and A4 and not of them were fixed. They would jamm at the shooting range (ideal conditions, no dirt) after less than 70 rounds.....

thats because when i was first made they switched the firing cartridge to a different caliber so it fired longer but the charge that was used to fire the bullet was dirty and not clean, if they stuck to the stock cartridge designed for the m16 they wudda had no ideal condition jams.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by CptSimFreak

M16 was fixed? That's news to me since I used M16-A2,A3 and A4 and not of them were fixed. They would jamm at the shooting range (ideal conditions, no dirt) after less than 70 rounds.....

Check you gas line. I've put 5000 to 6000 rds through mine without a single jam. Colt had problems. Bushmaster is better.

-S

PS. I take that back - I had a dented mag that caused an FTF once. Spring hung on the dent (It was a minor dent too and I didn't think something so small would affect it). It was one of the older Colt style mags. So I had one - but it was not caused by the gun. Been using Bushmaster mags ever since without a single hiccup.

PPS. I forgot - my gun lube - I swear by this stuff - http://www.militec1.com/

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by CptSimFreak

It's probably XM-8, although I didn't know they entered combat..

That project was cancelled long ago. None were made for military service.

[CptSimFreak]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Check you gas line. I've put 5000 to 6000 rds through mine without a single jam. Colt had problems. Bushmaster is better.

-S

Each time I had to re-qualify, I had that problem. My squad mates had that problem. And don't compare AR to M16...

[blue3golf]

As an infantryman with tours to Iraq I can say i never had a problem with an M16. Sure, they might require some cleaning but that's part of it and if you do it right after a mission there should be no problems. The old CLP sucks, if you use something like Mil-Tec or some sort of dry lube they work fine. It all comes down to how well you take care of your weapon. Only time I've had one jam after a couple magazines was at a range when it was freezing cold and the thing heated up so fast it the metal expanded to fast and that's what happens. As for the AK, the only reason it is so reliable is beacuse of how loose the tolerances are that it is built too, there is so much room in that receiver that mud and all kinds of crap can get in there and it still fires, but the price of that is accuracy, or total lack of it. The round an AK uses doesn't do the damage to the human body that one from the M16 does either, it just leaves a hole, easy fix, nothing like getting hit and then the round tumbles and bounces all over inside the body like ours do, can't plug holes you can't see. I would rather spend a little extra time cleaning and M16, which your supposed to do anyway, and have my accuracy than just some spray gun.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by CptSimFreak

Each time I had to re-qualify, I had that problem. My squad mates had that problem. And don't compare AR to M16...

I've shot both. Internally they are almost the same. I forgot to mention - http://www.militec1.com/ - That is the lube that I swear by.

-S

Here are the differences:

http://www.ar15.com/content/legal/AR15-M16Parts/

[CptSimFreak]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

I've shot both. Internally they are almost the same. I forgot to mention - http://www.militec1.com/ - That is the lube that I swear by.

-S

Here are the differences:

http://www.ar15.com/content/legal/AR15-M16Parts/

When 15000 military members use your gun, maybe than you can compare to POS I was using and yours. I'm sure it's nice and that it is accurate, but it is far from same weapon. Btw, I only had experience with 'range' guns that get overused. Picture what would happen to your toy when it will be taken appart 4 times a day by all kinds of folks and shot 200 rounds a day for years .

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by CptSimFreak

When 15000 military members use your gun, maybe than you can compare to POS I was using and yours. I'm sure it's nice and that it is accurate, but it is far from same weapon. Btw, I only had experience with 'range' guns that get overused. Picture what would happen to your toy when it will be taken appart 4 times a day by all kinds of folks and shot 200 rounds a day for years .

Ahhh! I see the picture! Yeah, that could be irritating.

-S

So, which weapon is jamming?

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by waste gate

So, which weapon is jamming?

Same question I asked.

I know Barrett has a new one (6.8mm? I forgot), and I know Heckler and Koch has a new one (4.5mm?), but i am wondering if this is even a new rifle - maybe in is the 5.56 FN SAW? I hear the SAW was having major issues in Iraq. Not only did it jam a lot (To the point where it needed disassembly in the middle of combat to clear it!!!), but that the barrels frequently warped. I bet this is the gun if I had to guess. I know that a typical SAW user carries 3 barrels into combat now - sad.

-S