Pentagon abandons active-duty time limits

[sonar732]

Hey all,

I just came across this today, and as a Missouri National Guard 175th MPBN member, we were talking in depth amongst ourselves about the 20,000 troop increase.

[Bill Nichols]

A person I work with, who is a former nuclear engineer on USS Seawolf, is being recalled to active duty to do civil engineering in Afghanistan

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by Bill Nichols

A person I work with, who is a former nuclear engineer on USS Seawolf, is being recalled to active duty to do civil engineering in Afghanistan

The forgotten war. I wish him luck and a safe return from his tour. Dangerous place over there from what I have seen, in particular Kunar and Helmand province.

20, 000 more troops. I didn't hear any uproar when Charlie Rangel (D-NY) was calling for a re-instatement of the draft.

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by waste gate

20, 000 more troops. I didn't hear any uproar when Charlie Rangel (D-NY) was calling for a re-instatement of the draft.

Because everyone knew it was a symbolic gesture just like it was before.

[Schatten]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

Because everyone knew it was a symbolic gesture just like it was before.

I saw some interviews with him over that whole deal and he wasn't acting like it was symbolic, he really wants to do it. He also doesn't like it when you point out to him his military demographic figures aren't correct either.

Originally Posted by bradclark1

Because everyone knew it was a symbolic gesture just like it was before.

What is symbolic about conscription?

[bradclark1]

He didn't expect it to go. What he was implying was that if we are in a war everyone should help pull the weight so we should reinstate the draft. If you aren't prepared to reinstate the draft don't start a war.

Originally Posted by bradclark1

He didn't expect it to go. What he was implying was that if we are in a war everyone should help pull the weight so we should reinstate the draft. If you aren't prepared to reinstate the draft don't start a war.

Oh, I see, he was just fooling around?!! That's leadership. Now I will take what he, and his fellow Democrates, more seriously. Thank you for the heads up.

[bradclark1]

My pleasure.

[tycho102]

Originally Posted by waste gate

What is symbolic about conscription?

Because he knows the bill would never even be put up for a vote. It's just an attempt to show the "hypocricy" of the Congress.

Personally, I still want us the hell out of Iraq. At this point, our people are dying over there for no good reason. We hit back the moslems and destablized the region. Absolutely without question -- Mission Accomplished. Get the hell out and let islam take care of itself. The Shi'a will annhilate the Sunni. Some of the refugees will infiltrate Saudi Arabia, where they'll start bombing pipelines. Iran will fund them. That will drive up the price of oil, and Exxon and Shell and BP and Phillips and Mobil will make HUGE profit margins. 60-70%. We'll get the hell off oil, and stop funding jihad against us. Dude, I'm not even kidding. Let Iran take over. Had we pulled our 38,000 from Korea and our 100,000 from Europe, we might have been able to secure the borders and stop jihadist infiltration. We might have been able to displace the civilian population in areas long enough to identify insurgents. Had we set up an identification database, we might have been able to identify recruited insurgents. But we didn't, and 20,000 isn't going to do it.

As for the active reservists, otherwise known as "citizen-soldiers", they signed up. If you are not prepared to fulfill your contract, don't sign up. That's it -- black and white. I might have a different opinion if we had a conscription, but we don't. Don't sign up if you aren't prepared to do the job.


Also, on the topic of the UCMJ, don't do nude photos while wearing any article of your uniform. If your commander officer orders you to cease an affair with subordinate enlisted member, do so immediately. And don't expect the "delete" key to actually delete your top-secret communication records.


That is all.

[Schatten]

Originally Posted by waste gate

Oh, I see, he was just fooling around?!! That's leadership. Now I will take what he, and his fellow Democrates, more seriously. Thank you for the heads up.

I don't they're joking around either.

Remember John Kerry is on the Armed Services Committee and the Dems hold him up to be a voice of authority on military matters and he's more than once said that an all volunteer military is a Very Bad Thing(tm) because it leads to "militarism" and other bad things. Other bad things probably being professionalism and efficiency, can't have those ya know.

So on one hand we have our professional military full of people who generally want to be there, who are motivated and well trained. On the other in a liberal ideal world we'd have a non-militaristic military full of conscripts who don't want to be there and definately don't want to have to go fight anywhere.

If you a look at what the readiness, morale and even court-martial levels for the early '70s draft army, the one that wasn't fighting in Vietnam anymore, and the volunteer one of today you'll see that the ideal "everyone pitching in their fair share whether they want to or not" military is a really, really bad idea. Especially when you're fighting a war.

Granted it did work in World War II, but that was a different time and we were definately a different sort of people in general. Back then we fought to win wars, instead of looking for the nicest euphemism ("Phased Redeployment" seems to be the term de jour) to use when we decide to lose one.

Withdrawl from Iraq right now is a whole other topic, but in general I believe that doing it now with the way the situation is would lead to even more problems than what is happening daily there now. If we withdraw before the Iraqis can get a handle on the situation and Iraq becomes Afghanistan circa 2000 all over again then a couple/few years down the road we'll be getting what we deserve for not finishing what we started.

[Yahoshua]

A withdrawl is a defeat. If we're going to win this war we're going to be there for a long long time.

By win, I mean setting up the Iraqi gov't on it's own feet and making it capable of running day-to-day operations so they can continue fighting the ground war for us. The U.S will still be there on a support basis but our position in the war will decrease substantially. When the insurgency ceases, we've won.

[U-533]

Reinstate the draft?

HA!

These punks would shoot themselves in the foot.....

Then we tax payers will have to keep feeding them.

[bradclark1]

Has regular armed forces ever defeated an insurgency in history? I can't think of one time.
Anyone?