Question about CO2 levels

silentwayIII · 10-28-06, 04:04 PM

Using NYGM_ver_2.2

I've noticed that the co2 level in my IXD2 (maybe others) seems to go into the yellow zone and then red zone alot quicker than my battery loses power at 2-3kts.

Question: is this accurate or not? Under normal conditions, what is the maximum time oxygen remains in the acceptable (breathable) range? Or, is the air circulating inside the submarine breathable until you are at the very end of the red zone (8).

My crew number is only 43, which is less than the normal crew complement. It would be good to know what the normal parameters are.

Thanks,

SilentwayIII

jasonsagert · 10-29-06, 02:49 AM

Silentway,

CO2 seems to accumulate faster than your batteries wear down, from my experience. I can run at 2 kts and will run out of "air" before I run out of power. I don't know if this is accurate. It would depend on a lot of things as most times boats were under for extensive periods of time they were being DC'ed. Which means they were probably using more power than just running at 2 kts (rapid burst to move from under the DC's). And under these circumstances, the boat would probably run out of power before it ran out of "air".

However, I've read accounts of uboats being under for over 30 hrs. I haven't tried, but I don't think you can do that in SH3 (and I'm using GW).

As far as crew number having an affect on CO2 accumulationg, it doen't matter.

Hope that helps some.

J

Kaleun_Saxi · 10-31-06, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonsagert

...
However, I've read accounts of uboats being under for over 30 hrs. I haven't tried, but I don't think you can do that in SH3 (and I'm using GW).

As far as crew number having an affect on CO2 accumulationg, it doen't matter.

Hope that helps some.

J

That would be historically accurate. Just watched "Das Boot" again, they were lying on the ocean floor in 270m depth for a whole day long. They had given all crew members not on repair duty special masks to reduce waste of oxygene (sorry, don't remember the device's proper name).

Gogs · 10-31-06, 10:15 AM

[/quote] That would be historically accurate. Just watched "Das Boot" again, they were lying on the ocean floor in 270m depth for a whole day long. They had given all crew members not on repair duty special masks to reduce waste of oxygene (sorry, don't remember the device's proper name).[/quote]

How do those masks work? Are they fitted with a CO2 scavenger or something?

(sorry to go a bit off topic)

mookiemookie · 10-31-06, 10:29 AM

A person can die from breathing in too much CO2 even though there may actually be enough oxygen in the air to survive. Those masks were fitted with potash cartridges (as potash neutralizes CO2) in an attempt to prevent CO2 posioning.

Kaleun_Saxi · 10-31-06, 10:33 AM

Now I know! They used Tauchretter! These were early scuba diving equipment. These Tauchretter were used to leave the sinking boat when submerged, up to a depth of 40m. In the film they used them to save the oxygene level in the boat.

SteamWake · 10-31-06, 10:58 AM

Hrm.... Kinda interesting discussion.

Well Das Boot is not history it is a movie. It is however a fairly accurate representation of history.

Im not sure if there are any recorded incidents of subs staying down for "days" I wouldent doubt it but Im sure it was very very unplesant.

The use of rebreathers is evidently accurate. I belive their main use was for fighting fires. I wouldent want to be in a position where Id have to rely on one to survive.

As to the number of crew effecting the Co2 levels.... of course they do. After all they are the only source of it (unless they were burning candles

). If you have more crew your going to generate more Co2. Unless you can convince Bernard to hold his breath.

What I dont know is if this is "modeled" in the game. Might be an interesting and easy test.

The batteries have nothing to do with Co2. In fact they produce no gas unless being charged. While they are being charged they gas off Hydrogen which is an explosive poisoness gas which was (hopefully) vented to the atmosphere outside the sub.

Steeltrap · 10-31-06, 06:06 PM

I've read of boats being under for 36hrs, but I believe that was the absolute edge of their endurance.

U-boats carriede potash as a means of scrubbing CO2 from atmosphere. They also had bottled O2 to be released in boat to offset the build up of CO2. It was not uncommon for a boat that had been under for a long period (say 24hrs) to have the hatch to the bridge virtually blow open when loosened due to the excess pressure from extra O2 being released, plus pressure from trim tanks (which were inside the pressure hull) being adjusted with compressed air.

I think it's Cremer who mentioned how the hatch being opened on one occasion resulted in a noise similar to what you get if you blow across the top of a bottle, only on a much greater scale. Said it sounded like a fog horn, and was worried anything for miles around would hear it!! Spooky.....

I also believe NYGM may have played with the CO2 to make it more of a factor in terms of being forced to the surface (ever notice your chief reports 'oxygen at 75%' even though the guage shows 0% CO2? I've never had a report saying O2 is at 100%). It's true that escorts later in the war would persist to the point of knowing the sub MUST surface eventually. Earlier in the war they didn't have the escorts available for it, and the lack of radar allowed subs to surface within 2-3000yds and escape without being seen if at night in any seas above calm.

Hartmann · 10-31-06, 08:08 PM

In das boat movie, after the repairs in gibraltar, when they open the hatch, it opens like a tap of a bottle, perhaps the air pressure ??

kylania · 11-01-06, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeltrap

I also believe NYGM may have played with the CO2 to make it more of a factor in terms of being forced to the surface (ever notice your chief reports 'oxygen at 75%' even though the guage shows 0% CO2? I've never had a report saying O2 is at 100%).

The reason for this is because the air refreshes instantly after X amount of time, the gauge doesn't seem to fill slowly, but just drops to 0% CO when you're fine again. This is why you'll only ever see the 75% or 50% messages then when you look it's 0%. It's because you got the message as it was passing 75% and before it was able to put another report you were full due to insta fill.

10-28-06, 04:04 PM	#1
silentwayIII Electrician's Mate Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 135 Downloads: 166 Uploads: 0	Question about CO2 levels Using NYGM_ver_2.2 I've noticed that the co2 level in my IXD2 (maybe others) seems to go into the yellow zone and then red zone alot quicker than my battery loses power at 2-3kts. Question: is this accurate or not? Under normal conditions, what is the maximum time oxygen remains in the acceptable (breathable) range? Or, is the air circulating inside the submarine breathable until you are at the very end of the red zone (8). My crew number is only 43, which is less than the normal crew complement. It would be good to know what the normal parameters are. Thanks, SilentwayIII

10-31-06, 10:29 AM	#5
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	A person can die from breathing in too much CO2 even though there may actually be enough oxygen in the air to survive. Those masks were fitted with potash cartridges (as potash neutralizes CO2) in an attempt to prevent CO2 posioning. __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

10-31-06, 10:33 AM	#6
Kaleun_Saxi Torpedoman Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 112 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Now I know! They used Tauchretter! These were early scuba diving equipment. These Tauchretter were used to leave the sinking boat when submerged, up to a depth of 40m. In the film they used them to save the oxygene level in the boat. __________________ Kaleun Saxi USS Drum

10-31-06, 08:08 PM	#9
Hartmann Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Grid CH 26, Spain ,Barcelona Posts: 1,857 Downloads: 204 Uploads: 0	In das boat movie, after the repairs in gibraltar, when they open the hatch, it opens like a tap of a bottle, perhaps the air pressure ?? __________________ But this ship can't sink!... She is made of iron, sir. I assure you, she can. and she will. It is a mathematical certainty. Strength and honor

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10-29-06, 02:49 AM	#2
jasonsagert Torpedoman Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 113 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Silentway, CO2 seems to accumulate faster than your batteries wear down, from my experience. I can run at 2 kts and will run out of "air" before I run out of power. I don't know if this is accurate. It would depend on a lot of things as most times boats were under for extensive periods of time they were being DC'ed. Which means they were probably using more power than just running at 2 kts (rapid burst to move from under the DC's). And under these circumstances, the boat would probably run out of power before it ran out of "air". However, I've read accounts of uboats being under for over 30 hrs. I haven't tried, but I don't think you can do that in SH3 (and I'm using GW). As far as crew number having an affect on CO2 accumulationg, it doen't matter. Hope that helps some. J

10-31-06, 10:15 AM	#4
Gogs Watch Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 29 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	[/quote] That would be historically accurate. Just watched "Das Boot" again, they were lying on the ocean floor in 270m depth for a whole day long. They had given all crew members not on repair duty special masks to reduce waste of oxygene (sorry, don't remember the device's proper name).[/quote] How do those masks work? Are they fitted with a CO2 scavenger or something? (sorry to go a bit off topic)

10-31-06, 10:58 AM	#7
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Hrm.... Kinda interesting discussion. Well Das Boot is not history it is a movie. It is however a fairly accurate representation of history. Im not sure if there are any recorded incidents of subs staying down for "days" I wouldent doubt it but Im sure it was very very unplesant. The use of rebreathers is evidently accurate. I belive their main use was for fighting fires. I wouldent want to be in a position where Id have to rely on one to survive. As to the number of crew effecting the Co2 levels.... of course they do. After all they are the only source of it (unless they were burning candles ). If you have more crew your going to generate more Co2. Unless you can convince Bernard to hold his breath. What I dont know is if this is "modeled" in the game. Might be an interesting and easy test. The batteries have nothing to do with Co2. In fact they produce no gas unless being charged. While they are being charged they gas off Hydrogen which is an explosive poisoness gas which was (hopefully) vented to the atmosphere outside the sub.

10-31-06, 06:06 PM	#8
Steeltrap Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 818 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	I've read of boats being under for 36hrs, but I believe that was the absolute edge of their endurance. U-boats carriede potash as a means of scrubbing CO2 from atmosphere. They also had bottled O2 to be released in boat to offset the build up of CO2. It was not uncommon for a boat that had been under for a long period (say 24hrs) to have the hatch to the bridge virtually blow open when loosened due to the excess pressure from extra O2 being released, plus pressure from trim tanks (which were inside the pressure hull) being adjusted with compressed air. I think it's Cremer who mentioned how the hatch being opened on one occasion resulted in a noise similar to what you get if you blow across the top of a bottle, only on a much greater scale. Said it sounded like a fog horn, and was worried anything for miles around would hear it!! Spooky..... I also believe NYGM may have played with the CO2 to make it more of a factor in terms of being forced to the surface (ever notice your chief reports 'oxygen at 75%' even though the guage shows 0% CO2? I've never had a report saying O2 is at 100%). It's true that escorts later in the war would persist to the point of knowing the sub MUST surface eventually. Earlier in the war they didn't have the escorts available for it, and the lack of radar allowed subs to surface within 2-3000yds and escape without being seen if at night in any seas above calm.