Online play

[swimsalot]

So there doesn't seem to be a good place to post this, let's see what happens. A few common problems seem to keep occuring, let's try to figure out a fix, please help out:

1. Why do people get dropped when playing online?

a.the host has a Firewall running? Seems like this would prevent the initial connection, not later in a game. Some people always think this is the cause, I'm not too sure. b.too much data/too little bandwidth? This seems most likely to me, because people often lag or get dropped when missiles start flying. c. another cause?

2. What does it take to run a mission with 6vs6, different platforms, lot's of action, people using Ventrillo at the same time?

a.Does the host need to be a server, or on a T-1 line? b. Would turning off any "eye candy" affect the lag? - Does Ventrillo cause/affect the lag at all?

The whole point of DW is that it has different platforms, allowing a total sea/air battle. If we can only play with 2 or 3 subs without incurring lag, we're getting shortchanged.

Let's come up with some ideas to try and resolve the lag/drops that seem to plague this game. I'm not talking about "unable to connect", or CTD issues. I'm strictly curious about lags and drops experienced when online. Please, add your thoughts here, it will be us that solves this issue, because it affects us the most! Ps, for some reason I can't make the text have breaks or spaces, so forgive the look of the post

[Qppralke]

A Feature , to rejoin the game would fix the problem.

[sonar732]

Swimsalot, use the "ordered/unordered list" feature in your editor above the typing area.

[kage]

Originally Posted by Tusipex

A Feature , to rejoin the game would fix the problem.

And cause a lot of others in the process...

Reconnect, at least with the game pausing for the other players in the meanwhile, might work better.

"Join In Progress" isn't all that simple if the game wasn't pretty much designed for it from ground up. DW wasn't. Everybody runs their own instance of the mission scripts - and you'd be without all sensor and contact data.

[kage]

Originally Posted by swimsalot

the host has a Firewall running? Seems like this would prevent the initial connection, not later in a game.

If a stateful firewall "forgets" a connection, which should only happen when the connection has been inactive for minimum a few minutes (dw will send several packets a second, I think, and time out itself before the firewall does) or if the router/firewall gets reset while playing, then that will kill a connection.

I'm with you here, this is not particularly a problem. That's why I outright lie about my firewall being down, as long as it's not initial connecting that's the problem.

b.too much data/too little bandwidth? This seems most likely to me, because people often lag or get dropped when missiles start flying.

There's a reason few realtime games use directplay. And those, who are serious and do that, often switch later when they find out how bad it is.

I suspect that instead of letting the missiles fly, letting their position be a result of lastpos+course*speed*time until course or speed changes, DP insists on transmitting it every frame it has moved more than a certain distance since last time it was sent. (= every frame for fast missiles)

So this is indeed a factor.

Couple this with the fact that DP is strictly client-server, and you have a host tasked with retransmitting the information to everyone. The host then has to send x players' worth of data to x-1 players. And that does not include same-platform data of a multistation game.

Add the fact that most people are on asymmetric lines with relatively small upload capacities, and you'll perhaps see a problem.

I hear they played DW on a lan, and got a lot of players (16?) in a stable game, sometime before the 1.0 (battlefront) release. LAN reads "unlimited bandwidth" in game development terms.

c. another cause?

THe last times I played MP, people dropped (nearly always) because DW crashed on their computer.

(snip vague mission specs) Does the host need to be a server, or on a T-1 line?

"...be a server" - mind trying to say it again, only what you really meant this time?
The host of a game doesn't need a particularly powerful pc. DW only needs PCPOWER(tm?) for time compression. The data routing implied by MP should have a minimal impact.

I don't remember the capacity of a t1 at the moment, and I don't know how much bandwidth any particular scenario in any particular player configuration in any particular game situation actually demands.

b. Would turning off any "eye candy" affect the lag?

If these things are a problem, you're already having a playability problem, probably even in singleplayer.

- Does Ventrillo cause/affect the lag at all?

Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Negligible if you're not on 56k modem or similar. (1ch ISDN)

The whole point of DW is that it has different platforms, allowing a total sea/air battle. If we can only play with 2 or 3 subs without incurring lag, we're getting shortchanged.

Early MP was plagued by mission makers sticking every conceivable platform in a mission and the host then trying to fill every platform. The question was always who drops, not if. Only on a very rare occasion was the answer 'nobody'.

What we can do? Only play missions MP made by sensible authors, who avoids "The great missile exchange", "ambient" ships every 1sqnm in a mission area of 100sqnm (haven't actually seen that) and ... (taking suggestions here)

[swimsalot]

(
"...be a server" - mind trying to say it again, only what you really meant this time?

By this I mean some online games use a dedicated server sponsored by a clan (ie playing BF, COD). These games may have 20 or 30 people playing at once, shooting and running all over the place. So would having the game run on a server work?

The host of a game doesn't need a particularly powerful pc. DW only needs PCPOWER(tm?) for time compression. The data routing implied by MP should have a minimal impact.

If the host pc has to do what you say it does, wouldn't a faster pc be less likely to have issues? In part of your post you mentioned how a pc would need to update the missile's position, speed, etc every frame ,which seems like a mathematical operation. So a pc that has a faster CPU would have less problems, right? Or more RAM?

I don't remember the capacity of a t1 at the moment, and I don't know how much bandwidth any particular scenario in any particular player configuration in any particular game situation actually demands.

1.54mb per sec capability, give or take. Roughly eqaul to 24 DSO lines.

What we can do? Only play missions MP made by sensible authors, who avoids "The great missile exchange", "ambient" ships every 1sqnm in a mission area of 100sqnm (haven't actually seen that) and ... (taking suggestions here)

This is my point. Why shouldn't we be able to play the sim as it's meant to be played? Is the way it's written dooming to missions with only a few ships, that never launch missile salvos?
This seems ridiculous when you look at games that have 20 or more peopole online at once, with very advanced physics engines and graphics running.