GW mod and the weapon power.

VON_CAPO · 10-02-06, 11:52 AM

I had played many times with this mod and I have to say: it is GREAT!!!

But, it has a awfull side, and it is its low power weapons.

Let me demonstrate this with a graphic example:

Mission: Gibraltar
Boat: type VII
Year: 1941

As you can see I torpedoed this destroyer once amidship at 17:20 hours, but without visible results, no fire on board and no list.

The DD followed her path at the same speed and direction, so I decided to surface and to finish my job with artillery.

As you can see, a reinforcement appeared on the horizon at the right.

After more than 15 impacts, and my time on the surface almost exhausted, because a second reinforment appeared on the left.
I ran into the DD, a desperate action for desperate times.

As you can see, I dived because the reinforcement were getting closer.
My prey was still moving, and I never knew if she was sunk or not.

Final thoughts:
I need to find out a way to increase the weapon power by 50%, or may be 100%.
DD are basically "cans", they are not armored at all.
It is the only way to fix this unrealistic behavior.

Realism, YES. A handicapped boat, NO.

Warmonger · 10-02-06, 12:10 PM

Are there supposed to be pictures? If so I can't see them...

Anyway, on my last patrol it was Norway invasion time and all I could find was destroyers or destroyer groups so I attacked them (what I normally not do). I sunk 2 tribals with 1 torpedo each, but had to wait for quite some time until they went down.

HunterICX · 10-02-06, 12:30 PM

1. IF you have a clear shot at an Escort/DD try so, if hit and sinks ok, if it doesnt get your sub deeper and leave it alone, DD's are not worth the trouble

2. NEVER surface when other DD's are comming or around. this is going get urself killed.

3. Deck gun, its not as the stock anymore, the damage model doesnt allow you to just shoot blind at it so it would blow up in hollywood style, shoot at the Water line to get it down.

4. Ramming in GW is a suicidal move , this damage the Hull so bad that you are screwed when you need to crash dive.

also knowing the damage model doesnt always result in a direct sinking, sometimes you have to wait, I have hitted a DD like that, it continued like nothing happen but I saw his hull dissapearing under water and at the sudden her butt sinks and there she goes. you have to be patient sometimes.

Greetz HunterICX

if you want to have more firepower
remove TGW mod and continue with stock sh3.
because I cant think of any tweak that bumps up the firepower

Respenus · 10-02-06, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterICX

you have to be patient sometimes.

PATIENT? Patient you say? Good. I sent 3 fish into a merchant and had to wait for a long time for the thing to sink. Then I shot a tramp steamer with 2 fish (3rd one was a dud) and sent A LOT of shells into her at 512X TC to make her sink.

Grrr!

Oh, and VON_CAPO, you can use the childrens GW update someone make, do a search, you'll find it, the increases the guns power and some other tweeks that will make it more fun, but less realistic.

bigboywooly · 10-02-06, 12:41 PM

Are you aiming at different compartments for torpedos and deck gun
Also aim below waterline for DG

I have rarely had to wait anywhere near that long for a sinking

VON_CAPO · 10-02-06, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Respenus

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterICX

you have to be patient sometimes.

PATIENT? Patient you say? Good. I sent 3 fish into a merchant and had to wait for a long time for the thing to sink. Then I shot a tramp steamer with 2 fish (3rd one was a dud) and sent A LOT of shells into her at 512X TC to make her sink.

Grrr!

Oh, and VON_CAPO, you can use the childrens GW update someone make, do a search, you'll find it, the increases the guns power and some other tweeks that will make it more fun, but less realistic.

Yes, I will do that search right now. Thank you.

About the "patience":
It is very understandable to wait for the sinking.

But it is not, when you have a handicapped torpedo.

A real G7 torpedo has 280 kilograms of hexogen, which is absolutely able to tear apart a battleship peel (very, very thick indeed).

With GW mod you need to use as many torpedoes against a merchant as a battleship.

This is outrageous.

Take a look a some historical facts about the most successful patrols:
From: ---> http://uboat.net/ops/top_patrols.htm

Taking in count that a type VII u-boat carry 14 torpedoes and a type IX carry 23; do the math.
Is it possible with GW mod achieve those numbers (showed in the link above mentioned)?
My personal answer is: - I don't think so!

Most of us are experts commanders, we can take risks that a real commander would never take because this is a game, and we are reborn over and over again, to begin again.
So, for us, is a lot easier to reach those numbers.

So, I insist. I will find out the way to increase the power of my weapons to get a realistic balance.

To finish this complain... a pic.
A boat showing multiple victories, of course, she never had to use GW mod.

AVGWarhawk · 10-02-06, 03:09 PM

Well, sir, I recommend you scrap the mod and play the game with one hit wonders. I believe the numbers are against you for the damage model in the game. More like it than dislike it. I would agree that the cannon should be a bit stronger and the small tramp steamer is indestructable. Therefore, I bypass those and play with the cannon if I have time. No one is forcing you to use it and you could not have beaten the price you paid for it. Perhaps some constructive criticism would be in order and not pictures with a sly remark on the GW mod. Again, no one forced it upon you.

Yesterday I was playing multiplayer and knocked out the tramp steamer with one torpedo. Other times you just have to EARN your kill!

CWorth · 10-02-06, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VON_CAPO

With GW mod you need to use as many torpedoes against a merchant as a battleship.

This is outrageous.

I have no problems sinking ships in the GW mod.These are my results in numbers of torpedoes it takes for me to sink a ship.All these figures depend on whether or not I get a hit on a critical area or if I get a bad hit.

Destroyers..1-2 torpedos
Battleships...2-4 torpedos
Carriers..2-4 torpedos

Small Merchants...1-2 torpedos
Medium Merchants...1-3 torpedos
Large Merchants...2-3 torpedos

Heck in a Type II with only 6 torpedos I come back to port regularly with 3-4 ships sunk.

Sailor Steve · 10-02-06, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VON_CAPO

About the "patience":
It is very understandable to wait for the sinking.

But it is not, when you have a handicapped torpedo.

A real G7 torpedo has 280 kilograms of hexogen, which is absolutely able to tear apart a battleship peel (very, very thick indeed).

Actually, a battleship's skin isn't normally any thicker that any other ship's, that is 1/2 to 1 inch. The armor belt is a lot thicker, but torpedoes are meant to go underneath it, and you are right, the armor wouldn't be much protection against a large underwater blast anyway. On the other hand, battleships in WWII were protected by a special system designed to defeat torpedoes, and on the whole it worked pretty well. Yamato took something like 17 torpedoes and 20 bombs to put down.

Quote:

With GW mod you need to use as many torpedoes against a merchant as a battleship.

This is outrageous.

Not really, but sometimes it seems that way. I've had big merchants go down fairly quickly with that damage system, but I've had a lot more take more than I thought was reasonable.

Quote:

Take a look a some historical facts about the most successful patrols:
From: ---> http://uboat.net/ops/top_patrols.htm

Taking in count that a type VII u-boat carry 14 torpedoes and a type IX carry 23; do the math.
Is it possible with GW mod achieve those numbers (showed in the link above mentioned)?
My personal answer is: - I don't think so!

Here I have to ask: are you quoting facts because you are interested in realism, or because in this case they agree with you? By that I mean, will you also argue for a possibility of equalling the least successful patrols? Would you be happy if you had an entire career without sinking one ship? It happened.

On the whole, I agree, but it has also been said that GWX will be trying something completely different. I don't know if it will be better, but we'll just have to wait and see.

Oh, one more thing: you don't need to increase the weapon's power to get the results you want; you just have to replace all the ship files from the 'Sea' and 'Roster' folders with the original stock ones. Then your targets will sink by hit points again.

AVGWarhawk · 10-02-06, 12:51 PM

Yes, you have to be patient. Hollywood has drilled into everyone "one hit wonders" no matter who the action star is. Unfortunate, in reality, not all ships blew up in to a million piece and sunk under 1 second. Often ships made port on fire and heavily damaged. Yes, destroyers are tin cans but the also just did not blow up on one impact. Also, these ships are compartmentalized so you need hit a few of the compartments to get her to go down. Sometimes you are lucky and you will get that one hit. Often in reality all torpedos were sent so to better the chance of a hit and a better chance of two hitting to get the job done.

I hit a cruiser in the stern, it kept going and sunk outside my field of view....I got no credit for the kill. She final sunk by the stern after 45 minutes. So, the GW mod makes ships sink realistically. The mod was not designed to be like an arcade game. Submarines are patient, suprise war machines. Waiting 45 minutes to see a ship go down is chicken feed after taking 24 hours to get yourself into position to sink the thing!.

SteamWake · 10-02-06, 02:07 PM

From what I understand there will be some adjustments to the damage models in the next version of GW.

Of course this is hearsay and someone please correct me if Im wrong.

10-02-06, 11:52 AM	#1
VON_CAPO Samurai Navy Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 588 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	GW mod and the weapon power. I had played many times with this mod and I have to say: it is GREAT!!! But, it has a awfull side, and it is its low power weapons. Let me demonstrate this with a graphic example: Mission: Gibraltar Boat: type VII Year: 1941 As you can see I torpedoed this destroyer once amidship at 17:20 hours, but without visible results, no fire on board and no list. The DD followed her path at the same speed and direction, so I decided to surface and to finish my job with artillery. As you can see, a reinforcement appeared on the horizon at the right. After more than 15 impacts, and my time on the surface almost exhausted, because a second reinforment appeared on the left. I ran into the DD, a desperate action for desperate times. As you can see, I dived because the reinforcement were getting closer. My prey was still moving, and I never knew if she was sunk or not. Final thoughts: I need to find out a way to increase the weapon power by 50%, or may be 100%. DD are basically "cans", they are not armored at all. It is the only way to fix this unrealistic behavior. Realism, YES. A handicapped boat, NO. Last edited by VON_CAPO; 10-02-06 at 12:10 PM.

10-02-06, 12:30 PM	#3
HunterICX Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2006 Location: Malaga, España Posts: 10,750 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	1. IF you have a clear shot at an Escort/DD try so, if hit and sinks ok, if it doesnt get your sub deeper and leave it alone, DD's are not worth the trouble 2. NEVER surface when other DD's are comming or around. this is going get urself killed. 3. Deck gun, its not as the stock anymore, the damage model doesnt allow you to just shoot blind at it so it would blow up in hollywood style, shoot at the Water line to get it down. 4. Ramming in GW is a suicidal move , this damage the Hull so bad that you are screwed when you need to crash dive. also knowing the damage model doesnt always result in a direct sinking, sometimes you have to wait, I have hitted a DD like that, it continued like nothing happen but I saw his hull dissapearing under water and at the sudden her butt sinks and there she goes. you have to be patient sometimes. Greetz HunterICX if you want to have more firepower remove TGW mod and continue with stock sh3. because I cant think of any tweak that bumps up the firepower __________________ Last edited by HunterICX; 10-02-06 at 12:33 PM.

10-02-06, 12:41 PM	#5
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Are you aiming at different compartments for torpedos and deck gun Also aim below waterline for DG I have rarely had to wait anywhere near that long for a sinking __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41

10-02-06, 03:09 PM	#7
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,254 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Well, sir, I recommend you scrap the mod and play the game with one hit wonders. I believe the numbers are against you for the damage model in the game. More like it than dislike it. I would agree that the cannon should be a bit stronger and the small tramp steamer is indestructable. Therefore, I bypass those and play with the cannon if I have time. No one is forcing you to use it and you could not have beaten the price you paid for it. Perhaps some constructive criticism would be in order and not pictures with a sly remark on the GW mod. Again, no one forced it upon you. Yesterday I was playing multiplayer and knocked out the tramp steamer with one torpedo. Other times you just have to EARN your kill! __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road Last edited by AVGWarhawk; 10-02-06 at 03:18 PM.

10-02-06, 12:10 PM	#2
Warmonger Lieutenant Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 266 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Are there supposed to be pictures? If so I can't see them... Anyway, on my last patrol it was Norway invasion time and all I could find was destroyers or destroyer groups so I attacked them (what I normally not do). I sunk 2 tribals with 1 torpedo each, but had to wait for quite some time until they went down.

10-02-06, 12:51 PM	#10
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,254 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Yes, you have to be patient. Hollywood has drilled into everyone "one hit wonders" no matter who the action star is. Unfortunate, in reality, not all ships blew up in to a million piece and sunk under 1 second. Often ships made port on fire and heavily damaged. Yes, destroyers are tin cans but the also just did not blow up on one impact. Also, these ships are compartmentalized so you need hit a few of the compartments to get her to go down. Sometimes you are lucky and you will get that one hit. Often in reality all torpedos were sent so to better the chance of a hit and a better chance of two hitting to get the job done. I hit a cruiser in the stern, it kept going and sunk outside my field of view....I got no credit for the kill. She final sunk by the stern after 45 minutes. So, the GW mod makes ships sink realistically. The mod was not designed to be like an arcade game. Submarines are patient, suprise war machines. Waiting 45 minutes to see a ship go down is chicken feed after taking 24 hours to get yourself into position to sink the thing!.

10-02-06, 02:07 PM	#11
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	From what I understand there will be some adjustments to the damage models in the next version of GW. Of course this is hearsay and someone please correct me if Im wrong.