Lwami mod

[Linton]

I hve just got a new laptop with a better video card than my old one.I have just installed DW as my old computer always struggled with it.Would you play the stock game first or go straight for the Lwami mod?Howstable is this mod?

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by Linton

I hve just got a new laptop with a better video card than my old one.I have just installed DW as my old computer always struggled with it.Would you play the stock game first or go straight for the Lwami mod?Howstable is this mod?

I don't think it matters much. LW offers some differences in AI, and sensor performance. He changes a lot of the sensor parameters and torpedo performances. My experience is that it's a half-dozen one way or the other. I have my likes and dislikes about both.

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by Linton

I hve just got a new laptop with a better video card than my old one.I have just installed DW as my old computer always struggled with it.Would you play the stock game first or go straight for the Lwami mod?Howstable is this mod?

There's no stability difference in whether the mod is installed or not. As for playing with or without the mod, in terms of what's easier for the new player to learn, there isn't much of a difference unless you use the LW/Ami 4.x playtest--I definitely recommend starting with 3.02 over the playtest because there is a lot more you have to learn to use 4.x.

But, in terms of the quality of the gaming experience between LW/Ami 3.02 and stock DW, I'd go with LW/Ami all the way. Between getting weapons like the 65-76 right, giving the FFG more direct control over the helo, giving weapons more plausible acquisition capabilities, improving AI behavior, making the AEGIS system actually work... etc.etc..... why would you want to play stock?

[Bellman]

.....and 'Advanced Torpedo Controls' ......... a very neat addition providing some new tactical options.

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

giving the FFG more direct control over the helo,

You know... I've been playing a lot with the stock helo, and I've actually been pretty impressed with it's performance just by letting it do it's own thing. Something I thought was really cool, was that if a sub shoots a ASCM and the helo is nearby, the helo would automatically drop a torpedo on the datum. When I started seeing it prosecute datums all by itself, I realized that maybe I didn't want to take too much direct control over it.

That's just been my experience, though. I've come to the conclusion that anything I do in DW is going to be weird compared to what everyone else is doing.

[Linton]

I think I will cut my teeth on stock DW and then upgrade.By then the next version of Lwami might be available.

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by SeaQueen

You know... I've been playing a lot with the stock helo, and I've actually been pretty impressed with it's performance just by letting it do it's own thing. Something I thought was really cool, was that if a sub shoots a ASCM and the helo is nearby, the helo would automatically drop a torpedo on the datum. When I started seeing it prosecute datums all by itself, I realized that maybe I didn't want to take too much direct control over it.

That's just been my experience, though. I've come to the conclusion that anything I do in DW is going to be weird compared to what everyone else is doing.

The mod corrects some of the omnicience that the AI helo has in how it handles linked tracks, which helps keep you from inadvertently benefiting from the bug. Plus, being able to use the dipping sonar is a pretty big deal, and AI prosecutions are much more reliable with the mod than without it. Count yourself fortunate that your stock AI helo did more than just fly circles around the contact, because that's usually what happens. (Remember all those posts about people shooting down 3+ helos in a game b/c they were circling overhead instead of dropping on them?)

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

The mod corrects some of the omnicience that the AI helo has in how it handles linked tracks, which helps keep you from inadvertently benefiting from the bug. Plus, being able to use the dipping sonar is a pretty big deal, and AI prosecutions are much more reliable with the mod than without it. Count yourself fortunate that your stock AI helo did more than just fly circles around the contact, because that's usually what happens. (Remember all those posts about people shooting down 3+ helos in a game b/c they were circling overhead instead of dropping on them?)

What I've noticed is that the AI helo takes a long time to attack a target in cold blood, but it will return fire.

Subs shooting helos down is not all that realistic. I think it's the cheesiest thing in DW. I'd take the SAMs off every submarine except the Kilo if I could.

Another technique I've found that's fun is to create a scenario like a MP scenario, but play the helo from a second computer as well as the FFG. I think this is the best solution to the helo issues if you have a second computer and a LAN. It definitely gives one the most control. The helo is relatively simple, so it's just a few more stations. I also think it's interesting because it really changes one's perspective on the interaction between the FFG and the helo. You really start to think of the helo as an extension of the FFG, which is what it really is anyhow.

Most missions I create are fairly time consuming, with situations that develop slowly. It's not a huge problem, except in surface warfare missions where things are much more fast paced. Then you don't really need play the helo that way anyhow. *shrug*

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by SeaQueen

What I've noticed is that the AI helo takes a long time to attack a target in cold blood, but it will return fire.

I think this is because the stock helo does a poor job of classifying a contact as hostile unless it witnesses that contact firing weapons. This is less of an issue with a player-conrtrolled FFG's helo, since you can order it to attack the link, but it makes all ASW aircraft other than those from the controlled FFG virtually useless. The mod makes signficant improvements in how AI ASW aircraft behave when they detect unknown contacts, including reliable classification and prosecution behavior, ensuring that ASW aircraft are a considerable threat. (For example, try playing Bill's "Race of the Cripples" with stock DW. Then try it with LW/Ami 3.02. Huge difference!)

Subs shooting helos down is not all that realistic. I think it's the cheesiest thing in DW. I'd take the SAMs off every submarine except the Kilo if I could.

Agreed on the realism point, but considering that both stock and modded DW have the SAMs, it's a moot point. Well, not quite moot...it cuts against you. By reducing the SAM's sensor cone, introducing a failure rate, increasing CM effectiveness, improving AI prosecution behavior, and improving a sub's ability to remain undetected underwater, the mod significantly discourages SAM use compared to stock DW. Sub launched SAMs are therefore less of a realism issue in modded games.

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by SeaQueen

What I've noticed is that the AI helo takes a long time to attack a target in cold blood, but it will return fire.

I think this is because the stock helo does a poor job of classifying a contact as hostile unless it witnesses that contact firing weapons. This is less of an issue with a player-conrtrolled FFG's helo, since you can order it to attack the link, but it makes all ASW aircraft other than those from the controlled FFG virtually useless. The mod makes signficant improvements in how AI ASW aircraft behave when they detect unknown contacts, including reliable classification and prosecution behavior, ensuring that ASW aircraft are a considerable threat. (For example, try playing Bill's "Race of the Cripples" or maybe "Time on Target" with stock DW. Then try it with LW/Ami 3.02. Huge difference!)

Subs shooting helos down is not all that realistic. I think it's the cheesiest thing in DW. I'd take the SAMs off every submarine except the Kilo if I could.

Agreed on the realism point, but considering that both stock and modded DW have the SAMs, it's a moot point. Well, not quite moot...it cuts against you. By reducing the SAM's sensor cone, introducing a failure rate, increasing CM effectiveness, improving AI prosecution behavior, and improving a sub's ability to remain undetected underwater, the mod significantly discourages SAM use compared to stock DW. Sub launched SAMs are therefore less of a realism issue in modded games.

[SeaQueen]

I think this is because the stock helo does a poor job of classifying a contact as hostile unless it witnesses that contact firing weapons. This is less of an issue with a player-conrtrolled FFG's helo, since you can order it to attack the link, but it makes all ASW aircraft other than those from the controlled FFG virtually useless.

I think you're right, the helo is a little hesitant on the trigger unless they shoot first, but I don't think it makes helos useless. If you use a realistic sized piece of ocean for the scenario, then they have a little bit of time to mull things over. I've watched AI helos attack and sink submarines. They're actually pretty good. I've even watched them take over from a player controlled helo after that one was out of torpedoes. It was fascinating to watch. Sometimes I think a lot of people's perceptions about how things "ought to be" are shaped by their own impatience. It seems odd to me, considering ASW is often jokingly referred to as "Awfully Slow Warfare"

What really does bother me, though, is that if you give an aircraft the mission "sonobuoy search" it doesn't start dropping sonobuoys for a long time, and if it does, it only drops singles instead of a whole pattern. At this point, ANYTHING would be an improvement over that.

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Agreed on the realism point, but considering that both stock and modded DW have the SAMs, it's a moot point. Well, not quite moot...it cuts against you. By reducing the SAM's sensor cone, introducing a failure rate, increasing CM effectiveness, improving AI prosecution behavior, and improving a sub's ability to remain undetected underwater, the mod significantly discourages SAM use compared to stock DW. Sub launched SAMs are therefore less of a realism issue in modded games.

Perhaps, but I don't like to play most MP games anyhow. Most of the time, in my experience, upon examination, the scenario itself drives the outcome more than anything else. On a realistic sized piece of ocean, the AI seems to work pretty well. Stock definitely leaves a lot to be desired, but I've come to the conclusion that my wish-list has nothing at all to do with what everyone else in the world wants. I also have had very few complaints about the sensors in DW.

My latest big gripe with DW has been that making CH-46s cycle seems to be impossible. I want them to zoom back and forth from my LHD to the US Consulate but for some reason they never run out of fuel! HA! It's like they're nuclear powered. I also wish I had the option of replacing all the CH-46s with MV-22s, and also a more up-to-date CAW. I also think it's funny to watch Harriers take off PERPENDICULAR to the direction in which the ship is traveling. I also thought it was funny that the AH-1 is labled, "NAVY" on the side when it's a USMC helo. Aircraft launch and recovery in general is bad for anything but helos.

I dunno... I ought to post my DW wish list some time. I change it occaisionally, but it'd be interesting to see what other people's thoughts on it are. I always think it's kind of funny, because the things that stick out to me almost NEVER have anything to do with what everyone else in the world thinks things ought to be. The things everyone is obsessed with don't seem so bad to me.