Free mods sold in U-Boat: Battle in the Mediterranean

[sergbuto]

Since the thread where I posted my findings seems to be deleted I'll re-post them here because I do not like to loose in my message count.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by sergbuto

I have taken a look at Southampton and Gloucester DAT files from the SW-Med release. I can say
with 100% confidence that X1 took the DAT file from my Southampton Cruiser mod.
For Southampton, they did not even bother to change digital IDs for 3D objects (i.e. clone the
unit) so that these IDs are exactly the same as in my Southampton (not to mention the same
naming convention of the objects - I changed Fiji for Town). There are more things which I can
use to identify the file from my mod but I will not tell them because I am using some of those
for the new models/units in works. Besides the thing with digital IDs is so obvious so that
anyone can check that. X1 people only imported one different texture to the file which in half
consists of the texture I used for the Southampton. The other half (to paint the hull) I think
was "borrowed" from Type941's textures although I can't be 100% sure about that since I do not
have those at hand right now.
While I spent long hours making the Southampton cruiser with the hex-editor (there was no
Pack3D available at that time), X1 people simply took it, imported a surrogate texture plate
with Pack3D and now selling it. Despite they were clearly indicated that the mod can't be used
for commercial purposes they cinicly replied that only used it as a placeholder for
screenshots while obviously having in mind to sell it. They do exactly the same thing which
they did with the first Seawolves release.' (source: here)

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by Sergbuto

X1 people also took and sell with current SW-Med release my Nationality Mod v2.0 (naturally
without permission). This time they tried to hide that by renaming the flag.dat file to
flagS.dat, however the digital IDs again tell it all. They are exactly the same as those I put
for various additional countries in my mod. Furthermore, the order of the countries is exactly
the same (I did not use the alphabetic order). X1 people only changed the texture for the
German flag. Anyone can download my mod from terrapin's site
http://u-boot.realsimulation.com/, open files in hex-editor and compare.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by sergbuto

As in the first Seawolves release, X1 people took and sell as a part of U-boat: Battle in the
Mediterranean my Multi-skinned Ships mod (as I suspected). The easieast way to quickly check
that is to go to the folders of the following ships in the data\Sea directory of the X1
U-boat: Battle in the Mediterranean release and compare the correspondingly numbered texture
plates with those in my mod
NTRW_ : NTRW__T02.tga, _T03, _T04, _T05, _T06
NKC3 : NKC3_T02.tga, _T03, _T04, _T05
NDE_River : NDE_River_T02.tga
NDD_V&W : NDD_V&W_T02.tga
NDD_Type34 : NDD_Type34_T02.tga (BTW, the texture was made by Type941)
NDD_HuntI : NDD_HuntI_T02.tga
NDD_Clemson : NDD_Clemson_T02.tga
I know that X1 people were not able to make multi-skinned ships until recently because when
they wanted to release a couple of ships for free for advertising purposes they contactde me
asking for making those multi-skinned. Why would they bother asking if they knew how?
Nevertheless X1 people did not hesitate to advertise multi-skinned ships as a feature of their
Mediterranean release.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by sergbuto

DD Hermes in the U-boat: Battle in the Mediterranean release is taken from the Sink Them All
mod because digital binary IDs of the 3D objects are identical. X1 people have only changed
texture for the hull and gave 5-inch guns to the DD in the EQP file instead of 4.7 inch.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
posted by sergbuto:

BTW, the last things I found are that X1 people took and sell Arado from the Float planes mod.
Again the digital IDs of 3D objects are identical. For the German type 1936A DD, they took
texture made by Type941 for Type 1934. I did not have time to check the content of this
release further but I strongly suspect X1 also took material from U-boat reflections mod and
German AI boats mod.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by sergbuto
Thanks for words of support, Eichenlaub.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eichenlaub
Shame this happens, it's perhaps legal (since modders haven't been given permission by
Ubisoft) /End of Quote
Concerning this point, you are having misunderstanding/under wrong impression cultivated on
purpose by some people visiting these forums. In many cases, the process can be viewed as
modders are putting their original material (3D models, textures, text, etc.) in the format
created by UBI. Insisting on that formated material to be UBI's propety is like insisting on
any book in PDF format to be a property of Adobe.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
posted by sergbuto
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eichenlaub
The way you put it just now, leaves me with one question: what if Ubisoft doesn't really want
any private individual to mod their files? /End of Quote

In SH3, in many cases you do not need to mod UBI's files, you ADD the files: new textures to
data\Textures\TNormal directory, new 3D models to data\Sea, new units to data\Roster, common
files to data\Library folder and so on. With your original material but only in the format
created by UBI (TGA for textures is not even their creation), any lawer can tell UBISOFT to go
to hell with their permission.

[enaceo]

Well I think you have some good evidence there.Team up with other modders that have had their work stolen,and maybe you guys can make something happen,if you get my meaning.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by enaceo

Well I think you have some good evidence there.Team up with other modders that have had their work stolen,and maybe you guys can make something happen,if you get my meaning.

Okay Ill play the devils advocate here and ask this.

How can you steal something that is free ?

(that should get the ball rolling )

[Safe-Keeper]

How can you steal something that is free?

Stealing is taking something without permission. It's really that simple.

[kylania]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

How can you steal something that is free ?

The point is someone took other people's work and are using it for their own commercial gain.

Someone posted a link to some Falcon IV mod which had a good example of a license for a free mod that should prevent that type of thing from happening. Pretty much just release your free mods are GPL or something similar and these types of "companies" like X1 can't do what they do.

[enaceo]

We aren't reall talking about "stealing something 3 here" ,but about not respecting the author's right.
For example,let's say mister X made ...the ...bigger crew heads mod.He made the mod for free,but it is HIS mod -his intelectual property.
Then,let's say some company,Y1 ,takes that mod ,and puts it into a pack ,and sells it for money,without even mentioning his name.
They are stealing his intelectual property which is something you can sue people for.

[Myxale]

Wow, thats quite the bummer Serg!
I mean if the same ID shows in the "mods" of the Mediterrane "pack" then this is a right in your face evidence!

Holy crap, they did worser things now than way back with seawolves!
Bugger them!

I can't imagine how you guys must feel now.

[Wulfmann]

Posted by sergbuto

DD Hermes in the U-boat: Battle in the Mediterranean release is taken from the Sink Them All mod because digital binary IDs of the 3D objects are identical. X1 people have only changed texture for the hull and gave 5-inch guns to the DD in the EQP file instead of 4.7 inch.

This intrigues me Serg.
I asked for DD Hermes for SW -Med.
They did not know about the ship at all. My (only) contact at Combat Planes asked me what it was and how it could be made. I told him it was a Brit G class (Included in SH3 C-Class) with some changes by the Greeks but close enough for the game.
He had it made (I have no idea who or what made their ships) received it and sent it to me (Jan 2006) I asked the guns be changed to the German 5 inch because the Greeks used the German 127MM on those ships as well as a few other changes which he did. I also asked it be classed a type 3 so it could be added without any chance of it appearing in the Atlantic (and other DDs showing up in the med)which he did.
The above question was mentioned to him (Sim HQ) that it was not his and he is actually perplexed as he was sure he had it made for him.
Who made it then for him?
Is someone selling him stuff that also offers it as freeware or is someone taking freeware and selling it to him. (that would be kinda funny)
This may be trivial but because I asked for it and I would like to trace this to the source and see where it leads.
Perhaps this could be done objectively?

Wulfmann

[spork542]

Somehow I expect this of X1 Software.

[joea]

Wulfmann it's more than just the Hermes and some textures. Yup someone ought to make an objective comparison (again).

[bigboywooly]

Combat99
Member
Member # 21244

posteddocument.write(timestamp(new Date(2006,7,30,13,49,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); August 30, 2006 13:49August 30, 2006 13:49 Yes, we did use some multi-skinned ships until we could make our own. I"m puzzled about the Hermes thing tho.. pretty sure that was built for us. I'll have to check back with the ship builder.. Too bad the skins slipped by it gets very hard to track individual skins when there are up to five per ship..

btw, ALL mods are the property of UBISOFT.. clearly stated when you install SH 3. We have UBISOFT permission to publish our expansions.

http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boa...=002387#000009

[SteamWake]

I find it curious that they (x1) use simHQ as their outlet.

Id be willing to bet that the crowd over there are somewhat less ... erm... up to date on these issues.

Well no worries I wont be giving them any money. Pretty happy with the GW supermod and the two are non sympatico

[Wulfmann]

Originally Posted by joea

Wulfmann it's more than just the Hermes and some textures. Yup someone ought to make an objective comparison (again).

I can only look into what I was involved in. That is why I want to track the Hermes as there was no reason to use a simple C-Class conversion already done and then mod that when an original C-Class would have been just as easy.
What would be gained? Nothing, nada.
That is what puzzles me and why I asked Combat99 to look into who built this so we might clear it up or at least figure it out. And why I want more info from Serg.

Wulfmann

[kiwi_2005]

I read here once that since Ubisoft own the rights to SH3 any mods that come out ubisoft have access to do what they want with them, and X1 was given the okay by ubisoft so they have every right to use the mods?

Dont get me wrong if the above is true then that sucks, but is this right?

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by kiwi_2005

I read here once that since Ubisoft own the rights to SH3 any mods that come out ubisoft have access to do what they want with them, and X1 was given the okay by ubisoft so they have every right to use the mods?

Dont get me wrong if the above is true then that sucks, but is this right?

Yes, legally, X1 Software is entitled to do so with the permission of UbiSoft. Ethically, their actions are wrong. However, the ethics of intellectual property use do not seem to be of much consequence to this 'company'. The real travesty from all of this is that it has changed the manner in which mods have been distributed to the public. After all, what amateur programmer wants to spend hour up hour of work to create something that will ultimately be stolen for profit.

The best that any of us can do is simply not purchase the product.