10 Reasons Why I Love My KILO Class Attack Submarine...

[DS]

1. My KILO is dead quiet at slow speeds.

At 4 knots, I can detect a 688 Flight 1 moving also at 4 knots from 5100 meters away, while he still has no idea I'm there...

At all stop, that same 688 can pass right by me at 4000 meters, and still not know I'm there... (I did this today, just before I put two torpedoes into him. He was not even able to return fire)

In a KILO at all stop, I am an invisible, noiseless, black hole, drifting in the currents, listening to and tracking everyone else around me...


2. My KILO, with limited maximum speed and limited endurance at high speeds, will not allow me to get reckless. She will force me to use patience and skill to defeat my enemies in their larger, faster, nuclear boats. Because she can not move at speed for long, she teaches me to never chase the enemy, thereby revealing my position. Instead, she teaches me to move slowly and silently into the right position, and let my enemies fruitlessly search about and ultimately use their speed to eventually come to me. When I shoot, I shoot from very close range, giving my enemy no time to react, or make use of their superior speed and firepower. By the time they hear my torpedoes, it is far too late fopr them to do anything about it...

In short, my KILO teaches me how to use my enemies strengths against them...

3. My KILO can still be sufficiently swift if needed. At 20 knots, she can not easily out run torpedos. Instead, she teaches me to move slowly, detect the weapon very early, and move laterally out of an oncoming torpedo's acquisition cone before it enables. She does this with finess at 15-20 knots, not at a brutish, frantic, and noisy 30+ knots as her enemies do, for everyone in the ocean to hear.

As the topedo passes by harmlessly and my KILO slows, she again becomes a silent hole in the water, but now still within striking distance of the firing submarine who has revealed themself to her...

4. My KILO, with no towed array, is free to creep along at the bottom at slow speeds without fear of dragging my most sensitive array in the mud, or scraping it on the rock. Further, I have no need to operate noisy array winches to manipulate my sonar sensors. They are all on board, and they are listening at all times...

Further, in an emergency, I am free to manouver without needing to pause and concern myself with the decision to retrieve or cut a key sensor I have grown dependant on, and which may be my only sensor source monitoring my enemies when the emergency occurs. Cutting an array is tantamount to losing your limb to save your life. A difficult choice, and something my KILO will never force me to make. If I need flank speed, she lets me go to flank speed, with no hesitation, and no resulting permanent loss of a key sensor.

5. My KILO hungers for air, unlike her nuclear bretheren. As such, she teaches me conservation of strength, and long term tactical planning as well as short term tactical planning.

6. My KILO builds my submarine hunter's skills. Though, strictly speaking, she is not built to hunt her cousins of the deep, she laughs at Sea Wolf and Los Angeles classes, and even her own Akula brothers, who plink helpless older, noisier submarines like tin cans, while gloating at their "successes". She has listened to this behaviour many times, sometimes very close by, them always none the wiser to her presence. When I kill my target through her, my KILO assures me that I have faced real odds and that skill, not technology, played a large part in my victory.

7. My KILO is small, but she drafts a third less water than a 688, as well as most other larger boats. In littoral warfare, this means she can operate in places where they can not, and she can be where most opposing skippers assume she could not possibly be...

8. My KILO does not boast 10 or more torpedo and missle tubes. She has a limited complement of weapons, but they are effectiveweapons. She does not allow me to fire them all about like a shot gun. She teaches me to be the assassin, quick with the blade, striking from close range in the dark, when you least expect it, before she slips away silently back to the depths, her enemy's hull break up sounds in her wake...

9. My KILO is shows me that you need not be expensive to be effective. She further teaches me that war is about people and skills, not machines.

10. My KILO is my teacher, and my protector. She teaches me patience, conservation of power and resources, and how to use the ocean and her characteristics to defeat my enemies. Through her, I grow as a cyber-skipper.

And, as a bonus, #11. My KILO may be short and pudgy, but at least her model is accurate!!

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by DS

1. My KILO is dead quiet at slow speeds.

All right.

2. My KILO, with limited maximum speed and limited endurance at high speeds,

This is called "making virtue out of necessity". What are you, masochistic? Does it really feel that good having to struggle with that limitation?

She does this with finess at 15-20 knots, not at a brutish, frantic, and noisy 30+ knots as her enemies do, for everyone in the ocean to hear.

This option is perfectly available in a nuke boat too, and I've done it many times, while still having the knots to give myself a half a last chance if this doesn't work.

4. My KILO, with no towed array, is free to creep along at the bottom at slow speeds without fear of dragging my most sensitive array in the mud, or scraping it on the rock.

That's because you don't have the most sensitive array in the first place

This stuff is like saying I love the Akula because its SSAZ display forces me to stare at the broadband to catch transients rather than being able to see them on History, and that its nearly useless active sonar display forces me to stick to passive sonar and active radar.

Further, in an emergency, I am free to manouver without needing to pause and concern myself with the decision to retrieve or cut a key sensor I have grown dependant on, and which may be my only sensor source monitoring my enemies when the emergency occurs. Cutting an array is tantamount to losing your limb to save your life. A difficult choice, and something my KILO will never force me to make. If I need flank speed, she lets me go to flank speed, with no hesitation, and no resulting permanent loss of a key sensor.

1) I don't ever remember really losing the array, except by ordering Reversing speeds.
2) Your flank speed is equivalent to the other guy's full.
3) This is like saying you don't have to worry about losing your legs because you don't have them in the first place.

5. My KILO hungers for air, unlike her nuclear bretheren. As such, she teaches me conservation of strength, and long term tactical planning as well as short term tactical planning.

This is also called "Extra effort to compensate for mechanical weaknesses". This is like saying that you prefer boats with no automatic TMA facility (even if it is a good program) because manual TMA teaches you TMA.

When I kill my target through her, my KILO assures me that I have faced real odds and that skill, not technology, played a large part in my victory.

OK, I guess this one's valid.

[DS]

Hi,

My little essay is NOT about how the KILO is the best, nor is it so titled. Far from it. My post was to draw attention to the spirit of this boat class, and how she might present new challenges and even opportunities for different tactics, for those who might not have considered trying out a diesel boat.

As we both pointed out, the KILO has many limitations, as well as a few strengths. Submarine COs who are not fortunate enough to find themselves at the conn of a Seawolf (this includes virtually every submarine CO in the world) can not throw up their hands and say "I'm not going out unless I get a Seawolf class". They work with what they have, playing to their boat's strengths, and their enemy's weaknesses. Further, they take some pride in overcoming disadvantage, and even in their "inferior" craft. That is the spirit my post was working to capture and share.

It would be easy to write the KILO off as not worth playing when compared to the other submarines DW offers, but I think we would be missing out on a boat with unique, and challenging, properties. Her differing characteristics cause one to re-think submarine tactics, and at the end of the day, this simulation is basically about learning and enjoying naval tactics.

I think Sonalysts were smart to include this class in DW, and hopefully, they will include more playable diesel boats in any expansion packs, seeing as diesel boats are what almost every navy in the world (that operates submarines) is using.

And yes, the KILO model is by far the best playable sub model in the game

Cheers.

[Kapitan]

Ok your so smart, next time i get my laptop back or when im free i challenge you to a 1 v 1 duel.

[DS]

Originally Posted by DS

And yes, the KILO model is by far the best playable sub model in the game

Cheers.

This should be read as, "Of the four playable sub classes, I think the KILO graphical model is the best" (as in point #11), not that the KILO submarine is the best.

I don't hold myself out as being smart, I just enjoy the game. And yes, multi-player would be a fun challenge. Computer opponent doctrine files have their limitations.

Cheers.

[Kapitan]

Well you have been challenged, once my laptop gets back onto the internet thanks to some one wiping off the IP :@ il let you know might be a while though.

[SeaQueen]

I don't like the sonar station. It's a lot easier to do better TMA using the sonar station on any of the American subs.

That being said, in my KILO scenarios, I don't generally obsess over the sonar too much. It's mostly about ESM, active intercept, and periscope skills.

[LoBlo]

No need to rain on this gantleman's parade. If he likes his Kilo he likes his Kilo. Its good for a capt to have pride in his boat. That being said... here are 5 reasons I love my SW....

.................................................. .
1. My SW is a a true shark of the ocean because she does not need to breathe. She does not need to come up for air and can go entire patrols without seeing the sky. She is truly a creature of the sea.

2. My SW is fast.... very fast. She can be miles away before you even knew she was gone... before you knew she was even there.

3. My SW has unlmited range. Her patrol zone is *everywhere*. From shallow coast, to the top of the world and back. She does not need "fuel"... food is her only limit.

4. My SW has enough firepower to sink an entire fleet. She is packed full of weapon stores and if you give her a reason, will try to put your entire fleet to the bottom of the ocean... hunting them, finding them, sinking boat after boat after boat without needing to rearm.

5. My SW is silent. She is not as quiet as a DE, but she is darn quiet. She can sit siliently for months at a time off a coastline. Her coolant pumps can stay off until she reaches high speeds and her prop is shrouded from noise. She will remain silent until it is time to strike.

[DivingWind]

Ah yes... The simplicity is what fascinating me! Kilo is such a primitive platform, but in the right conditions it is very deadly! I think we all can agree on that.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by DS

My little essay is NOT about how the KILO is the best, nor is it so titled. Far from it. My post was to draw attention to the spirit of this boat class, and how she might present new challenges and even opportunities for different tactics, for those who might not have considered trying out a diesel boat.

I was aware of that, but the post simply had too high a proportion of masochism not to poke at it.

I'd do one for the Akula:

1) The Akula is quiet at slow speed - OK, so it ain't quite Seawolf, but it is still a little better than a 688, which is still statistically my most likely sub enemy. Being better than half your competition ain't bad.

2) The crappy SSAZ display forces me to use narrowband (OK, here starts the masochism), which is what I was really supposed to use anyway but tend to dump in favor of broadband set on long time intervals in waterfall equipped subs. The inadequate washout speed forces me to go slow (my fave speed in a 688I is about 15 knots and then wonder why my points keep getting deducted for getting counterdetected).

3) Lack of a usable active sonar display forces me to play more realistically (not just pinging away - I used to do that a lot back when I played 688I).

4) I got supersonic antiship missiles, which allows me to attack effectively from further away (not very efficiently, since they still get shot down like hell, but at least I could do it).

5) I can use 3D airborne attack tactics for vertical envelopment, thanks to a healthy arsenal of antisub missiles. This opens up a whole new art.

6) Real Life Only: I only have to handle 50 guys, not 110+. This means fewer people to handle, a lot fewer fitness reports to write and analyze ... etc. The fact that I get a Commander's Deputy to do some of this paperwork can't hurt.

7) Real Life Only: I'd be saving a lot of money, since in the Russian Navy I'd feel a lot more like staying in the sub rather than out of it.

[Doc Savage]

The first couple of months I had DW, I used to play Kilo exclusively. Learnt what little I know about sub driving on that ship.
Then I tried the other subs and learnt that that thing wasn't exactly the "Black Hole" I thought it was. (I remember the shock I felt when I set up a test mission for the FFG -deep water but bad sonar conditions - Sand/high sea state etc... and then the TA detected my test Kilo at about 6 nm above the layer)
It's still a good sub when it's got ASMs and USETs. I really wish it had UGSTs and maybe even a TA of some sort.

[Whistler]

Nice thread... I like the Kilo as well.

I never use the Seawolf in DW for the same reason that I never used to fly the F-22 in old flightsims. Sure it may have the coolest displays, the most firepower, the best sensors, etc... but its just not as fun to win when you have the best technology in the air/sea. The Kilo is more like the Mig-29. Crude, small, and not the most technically advanced, but it has some tricks up its sleeve and can be pretty effective if you use it right.

[Fat Bhoy Tim]

Kudos to Kazuaki Shimazaki II for missing the point. As a DW and SHIII player I find myself using the Kilo due to the pleasure of the similar challenge to SHIII

[sonar732]

Where is TLAM's input?

[Sea Demon]

Speaking of that, where the heck is TLAM?