Kilo vs Trafalgars, or Strong Resolve

Amizaur · 08-03-06, 06:37 AM

I've read much about Australian Collins class submarines "sinking" several LA class SSNs that were trying to hunt them, or even actively seeking, hunting and sinking LAs during various exercises with US Navy. According to RAN the tactics of US subs were poor and they underestimated the capabilites of both Australian boats and crews. The "we are the best and no one other even close" syndrom ;-) I can understand it easily as Collins at slow speeds is much quieter than 688s or 688is, and have excelent sensors, also I can easily imagine US commanders being surprised that any OTHER navy knows how to can operate submarines ;-))

But now I hears something that was more surprisong for me. I heard from few sources, one of them being an officer from ORP Sokol, Polish Kobben class submarine, that during regular exercises Strong Resolve on North Sea, the polish Kilo class SSK ORP Orzel that is playing the "hunted" to allow western navies train against a Kilo class, not only the Orzel regulary don't allow to be detected and hunted, but usually detects and "sinks" the hunting Trafalgar class SSNs !!

Current score is 4:0 for Orzel :-).
Now this has surprised me more, because the Trafalgar is comparable quiet as a running Kilo, according to some data the Trafalgar is little quieter (of course Kilo becomes much quieter when stationary), and most probably the Trafalgar has much better sensors and data processing. And most importantly, I don't suppose the RN commanders and crew to underestimate the threat or poor/wrong tactics. To sink several Trafalgars that were hunting you, without being killed, well it's quite a achievement I guess ? :-)
I could easily imagine Kilo being not detected, if staying dead in the water (or on the bottom), but up to now didn't think they are able to detect, track and engage the hunting Trafalgars. Of course, by a chance, but not regulary !!

Hmm have to try if it's possible in DW (substituting 688i for Trafalgars) and think how to change data (noise levels or sensors) if it's not.

Anyway, I wanted to ask if anyone knows more details about those exercises (Strong Resolve, at least three years) and the Trafalgar's being "sunk" by Kilo ? Any info about tactics or ROE of the exercises ?
Or is it known fact at all ? I suppose it's little frustrating for RN commanders :-)

08-03-06, 06:37 AM	#1
Amizaur Sonar Guy Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Poland Posts: 398 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Kilo vs Trafalgars, or Strong Resolve I've read much about Australian Collins class submarines "sinking" several LA class SSNs that were trying to hunt them, or even actively seeking, hunting and sinking LAs during various exercises with US Navy. According to RAN the tactics of US subs were poor and they underestimated the capabilites of both Australian boats and crews. The "we are the best and no one other even close" syndrom ;-) I can understand it easily as Collins at slow speeds is much quieter than 688s or 688is, and have excelent sensors, also I can easily imagine US commanders being surprised that any OTHER navy knows how to can operate submarines ;-)) But now I hears something that was more surprisong for me. I heard from few sources, one of them being an officer from ORP Sokol, Polish Kobben class submarine, that during regular exercises Strong Resolve on North Sea, the polish Kilo class SSK ORP Orzel that is playing the "hunted" to allow western navies train against a Kilo class, not only the Orzel regulary don't allow to be detected and hunted, but usually detects and "sinks" the hunting Trafalgar class SSNs !! Current score is 4:0 for Orzel :-). Now this has surprised me more, because the Trafalgar is comparable quiet as a running Kilo, according to some data the Trafalgar is little quieter (of course Kilo becomes much quieter when stationary), and most probably the Trafalgar has much better sensors and data processing. And most importantly, I don't suppose the RN commanders and crew to underestimate the threat or poor/wrong tactics. To sink several Trafalgars that were hunting you, without being killed, well it's quite a achievement I guess ? :-) I could easily imagine Kilo being not detected, if staying dead in the water (or on the bottom), but up to now didn't think they are able to detect, track and engage the hunting Trafalgars. Of course, by a chance, but not regulary !! Hmm have to try if it's possible in DW (substituting 688i for Trafalgars) and think how to change data (noise levels or sensors) if it's not. Anyway, I wanted to ask if anyone knows more details about those exercises (Strong Resolve, at least three years) and the Trafalgar's being "sunk" by Kilo ? Any info about tactics or ROE of the exercises ? Or is it known fact at all ? I suppose it's little frustrating for RN commanders :-)