Where are the Christians?

[scandium]

I couldn't resist posting this article, because the title alone brought instantly to mind all of the numerous threads here on the wrongs done to us by Islamic Jihadists, and always with at least one post lamenting the fact that the Muslims can't seem to control their own extremists. Fair enough. Now I ask you, as does The Conservative Voice, where are the Christians?

When Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert unleashed his navy and air force on Lebanon, accusing that tiny nation of an "act of war," the last pillar of Bush's Middle East policy collapsed.

First came capitulation on the Bush Doctrine, as Pyongyang and Tehran defied Bush's dictum: The world's worst regimes will not be allowed to acquire the world's worst weapons. Then came suspension of the democracy crusade as Islamic militants exploited free elections to advance to power and office in Egypt, Lebanon, Gaza, the West Bank, Iraq and Iran.

Now Israel's rampage against a defenseless Lebanon -- smashing airport runways, fuel tanks, power plants, gas stations, lighthouses, bridges, roads and the occasional refugee convoy -- has exposed Bush's folly in subcontracting U.S. policy out to Tel Aviv, thus making Israel the custodian of our reputation and interests in the Middle East.

The Lebanon that Israel, with Bush's blessing, is smashing up has a pro-American government, heretofore considered a shining example of his democracy crusade. Yet, asked in St. Petersburg if he would urge Israel to use restraint in its air strikes, Bush sounded less like the leader of the Free World than some bellicose city councilman from Brooklyn Heights.

What Israel is up to was described by its Army Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz when he threatened to "turn back the clock in Lebanon 20 years."

Olmert seized upon Hezbollah's capture of two Israeli soldiers to unleash the IDF in a pre-planned attack to make the Lebanese people suffer until the Lebanese government disarms Hezbollah, a task the Israeli army could not accomplish in 18 years of occupation.

Israel is doing the same to the Palestinians. To punish these people for the crime of electing Hamas, Olmert imposed an economic blockade of Gaza and the West Bank and withheld the $50 million in monthly tax and customs receipts due the Palestinians.

Then, Israel instructed the United States to terminate all aid to the Palestinian Authority, though Bush himself had called for the elections and for the participation of Hamas. Our Crawford cowboy meekly complied. The predictable result: Fatah and Hamas fell to fratricidal fighting, and Hamas militants began launching Qassam rockets over the fence from Gaza into Israel. Hamas then tunneled into Israel, killed two soldiers, captured one, took him back into Gaza, and demanded a prisoner exchange.

Israel's response was to abduct half of the Palestinian cabinet and parliament and blow up a $50 million U.S.-insured power plant. That cut off electricity for half a million Palestinians. Their food spoiled, their water could not be purified, and their families sweltered in the summer heat of the Gaza desert. One family of seven was wiped out on a beach by what the IDF assures us was an errant artillery shell.

Let it be said: Israel has a right to defend herself, a right to counter-attack against Hezbollah and Hamas, a right to clean out bases from which Katyusha or Qassam rockets are being fired and a right to occupy land from which attacks are mounted on her people.

But what Israel is doing is imposing deliberate suffering on civilians, collective punishment on innocent people, to force them to do something they are powerless to do: disarm the gunmen among them. Such a policy violates international law and comports neither with our values nor our interests. It is un-American and un-Christian.

But where are the Christians? Why is Pope Benedict virtually alone among Christian leaders to have spoken out against what is being done to Lebanese Christians and Muslims?

The rest of the article you can read here:

http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/16239.html

[Skybird]

Maybe the Christians are simply sick and tired of the ME, who knows...

Since you are so very sure of that Hizbollah and Hamas shall not be fought against, could you tell us what to do, then? But spare your time if your suggestions are just what the UN is writing in it's papers, or that there shall be negotiations with terror organizations. But any better battle plan is welcomed.

Could you also elaborate what use it could be for Israel to intentionally target Lebanese civilians, and to intentionally destroy harmless private homes, and why it is so sure that these are intentional attacks, not siudeeffects that cannot be avopided when waging war in a heavily urbanized areas? Do you have a better idea of how to reduce Hizbollah's weapon stockpiles, to reduce their freedom of movement, and drive them away from the Israeli border? How to destroy a camp inside an appartmenet house, an ammo stockpile in the backroom of a shop? War is not nice, I agree with Mrs. Reagan. but so far no one has shown up with a better REALISTIC idea of how we could limit the threat that is projected by Hizbollah and Hamas to Israel. The border violations of the past years have been into Israel, not from Israel.

A brief reply please - not one of these twisted long debates about political semantics and thematic sidelines, global warming, the consequences of smoking and epidemic deseases, and hairsplitting definition of terms. The simple question is how to prevent two terror organizations from sending mroe suicide bombers to Israel and firing more missiles into Israeli cities? Your answer?

and keep in mind that since day one on I am opposing the Iraq war as determined as I defend Isreals's action now. No lecturing on how much warmongering and Mohammedan-killing I am.

[SUBMAN1]

Chock up another dumb thread!

[Ducimus]

They can all be found at the local church once a week comparing clothing.

The christians (like me) were busy with the world cup, female arse, and drinking beer...you know, the important things in life? We've blimming had enough of war...it gets boring after a while. That's why if it was me, and I'm speaking honestly, I'd nuke every fuker within a thousand mile radius. When you want to get rid of ants, what do you do...? Stamp one at a time?....or find their nest, rip the top apart with a bunker busting shoe, then rape the female ants with toothpicks, pillage their food storage and burn their homes with matchsticks?...then get the queen ant and chop her head off with a razor blade...in front of all the other ants! Then the great dam-busting finale...pour boiling water on the rest of the colony. THAT is how you solve a problem. That'll teach 'em to eat my effing honey!!

[scandium]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Chock up another dumb thread!

Not a Pat Buchanan fan huh? I admit he's a little fringe, but I respect the guy all the same (if for no other reason than for his literary skills and ability to dish out what he thinks because he thinks it, and not because its the PC thing or the popular thing or the book peddling thing). Plus his view on current events in the ME is a little novel and not the same AP sanitized and recycled summary you'd turn up otherwise.

[scandium]

Originally Posted by Kurushio

The christians (like me) were busy with the world cup, female arse, and drinking beer...you know, the important things in life? We've blimming had enough of war...it gets boring after a while. That's why if it was me, and I'm speaking honestly, I'd nuke every fuker within a thousand mile radius. When you want to get rid of ants, what do you do...? Stamp one at a time?....or find their nest, rip the top apart with a bunker busting shoe, then rape the female ants with toothpicks, pillage their food storage and burn their homes with matchsticks?...then get the queen ant and chop her head off with a razor blade...in front of all the other ants! Then the great dam-busting finale...pour boiling water on the rest of the colony. THAT is how you solve a problem. That'll teach 'em to eat my effing honey!!

The only problem with this approach is twofold:

1. People are not ants.

2. Your approach would also involve your own self-immolation. Are you simply suicidal then?

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by scandium

Not a Pat Buchanan fan huh? I admit he's a little fringe, but I respect the guy all the same (if for no other reason than for his literary skills and ability to dish out what he thinks because he thinks it, and not because its the PC thing or the popular thing or the book peddling thing). Plus his view on current events in the ME is a little novel and not the same AP sanitized and recycled summary you'd turn up otherwise.

I don't care for the guy. I mean, one day he shows up and wants to take a tour of my fathers boat. He really isn't interested in my fathers boat, he just wants a handout for his campaign in my book! I mean, he is alright and everything, but still not my cup of tea. He only wrote this article for the simple reason as to turn heads and get attention, just like everything else he does. Just my 2 cents.

-S

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

I don't care for the guy. I mean, one day he shows up and wants to take a tour of my fathers boat. He really isn't interested in my fathers boat, he just wants a handout for his campaign in my book! I mean, he is alright and everything, but still not my cup of tea. He only wrote this article for the simple reason as to turn heads and get attention, just like everything else he does. Just my 2 cents.

-S

Why can't he just ******* and run down the road singing tra-la-la...if he wants attention....like everyone else does.

[scandium]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Maybe the Christians are simply sick and tired of the ME, who knows...

Since you are so very sure of that Hizbollah and Hamas shall not be fought against, could you tell us what to do, then? But spare your time if your suggestions are just what the UN is writing in it's papers, or that there shall be negotiations with terror organizations. But any better battle plan is welcomed.

Could you also elaborate what use it could be for Israel to intentionally target Lebanese civilians, and to intentionally destroy harmless private homes, and why it is so sure that these are intentional attacks, not siudeeffects that cannot be avopided when waging war in a heavily urbanized areas? Do you have a better idea of how to reduce Hizbollah's weapon stockpiles, to reduce their freedom of movement, and drive them away from the Israeli border? How to destroy a camp inside an appartmenet house, an ammo stockpile in the backroom of a shop? War is not nice, I agree with Mrs. Reagan. but so far no one has shown up with a better REALISTIC idea of how we could limit the threat that is projected by Hizbollah and Hamas to Israel. The border violations of the past years have been into Israel, not from Israel.

A brief reply please - not one of these twisted long debates about political semantics and thematic sidelines, global warming, the consequences of smoking and epidemic deseases, and hairsplitting definition of terms. The simple question is how to prevent two terror organizations from sending mroe suicide bombers to Israel and firing more missiles into Israeli cities? Your answer?

and keep in mind that since day one on I am opposing the Iraq war as determined as I defend Isreals's action now. No lecturing on how much warmongering and Mohammedan-killing I am.

In the interests of brevity then I will quote that part of the article I posted, two short paragraphs, which nails precisely my own view. As to the solution, that is for those with more power and resources than I have to come up with; I, for my part, only have that which too many others in power seem to be lacking: an interest in events taking place there and a conviction that this has to stop.

Let it be said: Israel has a right to defend herself, a right to
counter-attack against Hezbollah and Hamas, a right to clean out bases from
which Katyusha or Qassam rockets are being fired and a right to occupy land
from which attacks are mounted on her people.

But what Israel is doing is imposing deliberate suffering on
civilians, collective punishment on innocent people, to force them to do
something they are powerless to do: disarm the gunmen among them. Such a
policy violates international law and comports neither with our values nor
our interests. It is un-American and un-Christian.

For my part I am neither American nor particularly Christian, but collectively punishing innocent people sure as hell isn't any value that I subscribe to.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Kurushio

Why can't he just ******* and run down the road singing tra-la-la...if he wants attention....like everyone else does.

You were given several friendly requests and a warning to avoid vulgar language, provoking members, and sending obscene private messages. When I got in tonight, there were 3 PMs from different people, all with complaints about your obscene language to them. Find another sandbox to play in.

Neal Stevens
Subsim Admin

[Skybird]

Scandium,

Thatn is no answer. You should tell us how to acchieve the objecives in the first paragraph of your quote, instead you tell us that becasue of the second paragraph (with some questionable content) we are not allowed to acchieve the objectives of the first paragraph.

So I repeat the question: how to reduce the armed capacity of two terror organizations, how to hinder them to strike at Israel and sending suicide bombers and missiles into Israeli cities, and preferrably keep them away from Israeli borders and reduce their striking potential to meaningless terms? You only tell us what we should not do, so what should we do?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

You were given several friendly requests and a warning to avoid vulgar language, provoking members, and sending obscene private messages. When I got in tonight, there were 3 PMs from different people, all with complaints about your obscene language to them. Find another sandbox to play in.

Neal Stevens
Subsim Admin

Does this mean I may safely take him off the ignore list, then?

[Subnuts]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

You were given several friendly requests and a warning to avoid vulgar language, provoking members, and sending obscene private messages. When I got in tonight, there were 3 PMs from different people, all with complaints about your obscene language to them. Find another sandbox to play in.

Neal Stevens
Subsim Admin

Ehhh... no real loss. :rotfl:

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by scandium

Now I ask you, as does The Conservative Voice, where are the Christians?

Simply stated, the political force of the United States is run by special interest. There are three very powerful lobbies in the US: The evangelical Christian lobby, the pro-Israeli lobby, and the oil lobby. The evangelicals have alligned themselves with the Israeli lobby on social issues, and are not likely to speak out against the actions of the IDF. So, criticism of Israel is very much in the same state as the chance of any meaningful alternative energy research: Not likely until special interest can be curbed, and the people can once again regain their voices.