Question on MTBs

Hylander_1314 · 07-19-06, 12:51 AM

Just finished my books on PT Boats, and found that most of the boats used in the Atlantic (Europe), and Mediterrainian theaters were the Higgins boats. Not to say the ELCOs weren't there, but they were mainly used in the Pacific, and from '43 on were used more for "barge busting" than ship attack, the rare events, like the Phillipines Invasion being the exception. And I was wondering if there were plans to add the Higgins 78 footers or not?

Also as the war progressed, mortars and depth charges, and rocket lainchers were added, as were an assortment of small and medium caliber guns. Light weight "roll-off" torpedo racks, and a 37mm cannon from the Airacobra to the forecastle.

Safe-Keeper · 07-19-06, 01:32 AM

Well, rockets and AI-launched torpedoes aren't in the game and to my knowledge can't be added, sadly

.

The late-war Elco in Grey Wolves packs a Hedgehog mortar rack, but I don't know if the damned AI actually uses it. I started this test-mission with them and me and some AI subs, and there were no hedgehogs flying from the racks.

sergbuto · 07-19-06, 02:47 AM

Your can get a mod on my SH3 site which simulates PT boats using torpedoes or rockets. I am yet to come back and improve it with all the knowledge I have discovered by now. The same goes for hedgehogs. I suspect the absence of sonar prevents PT boats from using hedgehogs but could be some other reason. I am yet to find some time to investigate and modify the mod.

HunterICX · 07-19-06, 03:25 AM

Well....I played Taskforce mission on the Internet with an couple of friends...I actually **** in my pants when I saw an American Destroyer pinging me and Fired an Ring of Grenade-Looking-like things onto me that busted my Submarine

Safe-Keeper · 07-19-06, 06:27 AM

Always go to the bathroom before playing Silent Hunter III:p.

And hedgehogs are so neat. It'd be awesome to see an Elco fire them

.

Hylander_1314 · 07-19-06, 09:37 AM

Couple things more, the skins need to reflect that these boats were made of wood, not metal (no panel lines or rust), without planked decks. The construction was a diagonal crosshatch of mahogany, with canvas glued in between the layers. Also, is there a way to run the water line in a straight line bow to stern? I wish I still had my 48 inch PT 109 R/C boat. Painted up in the black and white dazzle camo. Even though it was only done experimentally and disreguarded, due to time and maintenance, it looked great in the water.

Also, Webster's Illistrated Encyclopedia of WWII shows most American PT's being painted forest green, along with destroyers and other smaller vessels up to the cruisers. Camoflage patterns appearring over this base coat of factory paint. Which looks kinda weird when you see the black, white and gray patterns over the green.

07-19-06, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hylander_1314

Just finished my books on PT Boats, and found that most of the boats used in the Atlantic (Europe), and Mediterrainian theaters were the Higgins boats. Not to say the ELCOs weren't there, but they were mainly used in the Pacific, and from '43 on were used more for "barge busting" than ship attack, the rare events, like the Phillipines Invasion being the exception. And I was wondering if there were plans to add the Higgins 78 footers or not?

It's much worse than that: you're talking about the Americans, who weren't around until 1942, and then mostly in the Med. The most prominent MTB by far (in fact exclusively if you're in the Channel or the North Sea) should be the British 73-foot Vosper. If they were only going to have one Allied boat in the game that should have been it.

Hylander_1314 · 07-20-06, 08:31 AM

Darn I forgot about Vosper! It was also the inspiration for the US boat makers too. The first 2 series of ELCO boats were basically copies of a Vosper. Just out of curiousity, is it possible to add them? There are other merchants that have been added, so would it be possible?

sergbuto,

The PT's would usually move in close to where they figured the sub would be, and let loose with hedgehogs, and DC's, so maybe there could be a way to get them to randomly fire into an area where they would calculate the boat is located. That would give you the "chance" effect of scoring a hit or not. DC's would be interesting as they were rolled off the side, and unless the seas were absolutly calm, they were very haphazzardly dropped as the boats being very small would pitch and heave easily in anything but the calmest seas. My Uncle was a PT man, and he used to tell me all kinds of stories, even how they used to set the DC's to a shallow depth, and would drop them in the path of an oncoming DD to disuade it from pursuit. But he was in the Pacific, not the ETO, or MTO. But something else as to the accuracy of the MTB's, during the Phillipines invasion in '44, the PT's used in Surigao Strait, launched close to 50 torps at the IJN ships, and only 7 hits were seen. Or something like that. So the main purpose of the boats should be to harrass our subs and force us to dive, and not pose as big a threat as a DD or DE, or aircraft that are far more menacing, and downwright deadly.

Of course these are just some ideas, and I'm not even sure if any of this is even possible or not.

Kruger · 07-20-06, 09:15 AM

Talking about MTB's. I don't understand what has happened to their damage model in GW. I shot at least a couple dozen deck-gun shells into one, and she was still making 12 knots and shooting back. I don't get it...

.... And yes, I was shooting at the waterline, even though I doubt that the effect would be different to such a small boat. I think that even one direct hit from an 88 deck hun would completely disable it in reality.

CWorth · 07-20-06, 09:29 AM

What ever became of sergbuto's Vosper model he managed to import into SH3?
I have not heard anything about it since this post...
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ghlight=Vosper

Would be great if this was able to be finished and added to replace the Elcos with the Vosper.

Hylander_1314 · 07-20-06, 07:18 PM

Kruger,

That's way too many rounds from a large caliber gun. If you hit it even at the water line in the vacinity of the engine compartment, it would knock one or more engines off their mounts. Aside from the fact of water rushing in. Head for the balsa dingy boys! Plus the fuel tanks being in close vacinity, with 100 octane av-gas, should turn it into a "Roman Candle" real quick.

The boats were fast, as long there were parts for maintaining them, but all it took was one lucky, or unlucky shot with a big bore gun, which is why they mainly operated at night. Harder to detect, even with search lights, which could be shot out. Plus, they didn't get too close to the big ships, as it was suicidal to do so. At least from what my Uncle told me.

Kruger · 07-21-06, 02:12 AM

Thank you Hylander....that's exactly what I thought. Plus, I did some research after my encounter with such a well armoured vessel. I was thinking of torpedoing it when I saw that she would not sink in any circumstances. Oh...and I forgot. When si finally....FINALLY began to sink by the bow, I accelerated to flank, made a long loop and rammed her at 19 knots. She bounced, sank.....resurfaced. Rammed her again.....resurfaced......rammed...resurfaced..... GOD, I felt like smashing my keyboard.

In the end, I made the decision that I don't want to deal with such stupid boats and ther star wars armour. Can anyone tell me what to do in order to eradicate completely from my game these Elco's, MTB's or whatever SF things they are ?

bigboywooly · 07-21-06, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kruger

Thank you Hylander....that's exactly what I thought. Plus, I did some research after my encounter with such a well armoured vessel. I was thinking of torpedoing it when I saw that she would not sink in any circumstances. Oh...and I forgot. When si finally....FINALLY began to sink by the bow, I accelerated to flank, made a long loop and rammed her at 19 knots. She bounced, sank.....resurfaced. Rammed her again.....resurfaced......rammed...resurfaced..... GOD, I felt like smashing my keyboard.

In the end, I made the decision that I don't want to deal with such stupid boats and ther star wars armour. Can anyone tell me what to do in order to eradicate completely from my game these Elco's, MTB's or whatever SF things they are ?

I put the original Elco back into my game because of the above - shouldnt need more than 2 or 3 maybe 4 at the most hits to stop it

07-19-06, 12:51 AM	#1
Hylander_1314 Sea Lord Join Date: May 2006 Location: 5 Miles Inland West Of Lake Huron Posts: 1,936 Downloads: 139 Uploads: 0	Question on MTBs Just finished my books on PT Boats, and found that most of the boats used in the Atlantic (Europe), and Mediterrainian theaters were the Higgins boats. Not to say the ELCOs weren't there, but they were mainly used in the Pacific, and from '43 on were used more for "barge busting" than ship attack, the rare events, like the Phillipines Invasion being the exception. And I was wondering if there were plans to add the Higgins 78 footers or not? Also as the war progressed, mortars and depth charges, and rocket lainchers were added, as were an assortment of small and medium caliber guns. Light weight "roll-off" torpedo racks, and a 37mm cannon from the Airacobra to the forecastle. __________________ A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. -John Marshall Chief Justice of the Supreme Court ---------------------

07-19-06, 01:32 AM	#2
Safe-Keeper Ocean Warrior Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 3,234 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	Well, rockets and AI-launched torpedoes aren't in the game and to my knowledge can't be added, sadly. The late-war Elco in Grey Wolves packs a Hedgehog mortar rack, but I don't know if the damned AI actually uses it. I started this test-mission with them and me and some AI subs, and there were no hedgehogs flying from the racks. __________________ First Strike Mod tester. Hardcore sub skipper.

07-19-06, 02:47 AM	#3
sergbuto Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,331 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	Your can get a mod on my SH3 site which simulates PT boats using torpedoes or rockets. I am yet to come back and improve it with all the knowledge I have discovered by now. The same goes for hedgehogs. I suspect the absence of sonar prevents PT boats from using hedgehogs but could be some other reason. I am yet to find some time to investigate and modify the mod. __________________ Serg's SH4 and SH3 pages

07-19-06, 03:25 AM	#4
HunterICX Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2006 Location: Malaga, España Posts: 10,750 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Well....I played Taskforce mission on the Internet with an couple of friends...I actually **** in my pants when I saw an American Destroyer pinging me and Fired an Ring of Grenade-Looking-like things onto me that busted my Submarine __________________

07-19-06, 06:27 AM	#5
Safe-Keeper Ocean Warrior Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 3,234 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	Always go to the bathroom before playing Silent Hunter III:p. And hedgehogs are so neat. It'd be awesome to see an Elco fire them. __________________ First Strike Mod tester. Hardcore sub skipper.

07-19-06, 09:37 AM	#6
Hylander_1314 Sea Lord Join Date: May 2006 Location: 5 Miles Inland West Of Lake Huron Posts: 1,936 Downloads: 139 Uploads: 0	Couple things more, the skins need to reflect that these boats were made of wood, not metal (no panel lines or rust), without planked decks. The construction was a diagonal crosshatch of mahogany, with canvas glued in between the layers. Also, is there a way to run the water line in a straight line bow to stern? I wish I still had my 48 inch PT 109 R/C boat. Painted up in the black and white dazzle camo. Even though it was only done experimentally and disreguarded, due to time and maintenance, it looked great in the water. Also, Webster's Illistrated Encyclopedia of WWII shows most American PT's being painted forest green, along with destroyers and other smaller vessels up to the cruisers. Camoflage patterns appearring over this base coat of factory paint. Which looks kinda weird when you see the black, white and gray patterns over the green. __________________ A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. -John Marshall Chief Justice of the Supreme Court ---------------------

07-20-06, 08:31 AM	#8
Hylander_1314 Sea Lord Join Date: May 2006 Location: 5 Miles Inland West Of Lake Huron Posts: 1,936 Downloads: 139 Uploads: 0	Darn I forgot about Vosper! It was also the inspiration for the US boat makers too. The first 2 series of ELCO boats were basically copies of a Vosper. Just out of curiousity, is it possible to add them? There are other merchants that have been added, so would it be possible? sergbuto, The PT's would usually move in close to where they figured the sub would be, and let loose with hedgehogs, and DC's, so maybe there could be a way to get them to randomly fire into an area where they would calculate the boat is located. That would give you the "chance" effect of scoring a hit or not. DC's would be interesting as they were rolled off the side, and unless the seas were absolutly calm, they were very haphazzardly dropped as the boats being very small would pitch and heave easily in anything but the calmest seas. My Uncle was a PT man, and he used to tell me all kinds of stories, even how they used to set the DC's to a shallow depth, and would drop them in the path of an oncoming DD to disuade it from pursuit. But he was in the Pacific, not the ETO, or MTO. But something else as to the accuracy of the MTB's, during the Phillipines invasion in '44, the PT's used in Surigao Strait, launched close to 50 torps at the IJN ships, and only 7 hits were seen. Or something like that. So the main purpose of the boats should be to harrass our subs and force us to dive, and not pose as big a threat as a DD or DE, or aircraft that are far more menacing, and downwright deadly. Of course these are just some ideas, and I'm not even sure if any of this is even possible or not. __________________ A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. -John Marshall Chief Justice of the Supreme Court ---------------------

07-20-06, 09:15 AM	#9
Kruger Commander Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 476 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 0	Talking about MTB's. I don't understand what has happened to their damage model in GW. I shot at least a couple dozen deck-gun shells into one, and she was still making 12 knots and shooting back. I don't get it....... And yes, I was shooting at the waterline, even though I doubt that the effect would be different to such a small boat. I think that even one direct hit from an 88 deck hun would completely disable it in reality.

07-20-06, 09:29 AM	#10
CWorth Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Gettysburg PA Posts: 845 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	What ever became of sergbuto's Vosper model he managed to import into SH3? I have not heard anything about it since this post... http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ghlight=Vosper Would be great if this was able to be finished and added to replace the Elcos with the Vosper.

07-20-06, 07:18 PM	#11
Hylander_1314 Sea Lord Join Date: May 2006 Location: 5 Miles Inland West Of Lake Huron Posts: 1,936 Downloads: 139 Uploads: 0	Kruger, That's way too many rounds from a large caliber gun. If you hit it even at the water line in the vacinity of the engine compartment, it would knock one or more engines off their mounts. Aside from the fact of water rushing in. Head for the balsa dingy boys! Plus the fuel tanks being in close vacinity, with 100 octane av-gas, should turn it into a "Roman Candle" real quick. The boats were fast, as long there were parts for maintaining them, but all it took was one lucky, or unlucky shot with a big bore gun, which is why they mainly operated at night. Harder to detect, even with search lights, which could be shot out. Plus, they didn't get too close to the big ships, as it was suicidal to do so. At least from what my Uncle told me. __________________ A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. -John Marshall Chief Justice of the Supreme Court ---------------------

07-21-06, 02:12 AM	#12
Kruger Commander Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 476 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 0	Thank you Hylander....that's exactly what I thought. Plus, I did some research after my encounter with such a well armoured vessel. I was thinking of torpedoing it when I saw that she would not sink in any circumstances. Oh...and I forgot. When si finally....FINALLY began to sink by the bow, I accelerated to flank, made a long loop and rammed her at 19 knots. She bounced, sank.....resurfaced. Rammed her again.....resurfaced......rammed...resurfaced..... GOD, I felt like smashing my keyboard. In the end, I made the decision that I don't want to deal with such stupid boats and ther star wars armour. Can anyone tell me what to do in order to eradicate completely from my game these Elco's, MTB's or whatever SF things they are ?