Endgame

[Skybird]

From Capitol Hill Blue


The Rant
Field commanders tell Pentagon Iraq war 'is lost'
By DOUG THOMPSON
Jun 5, 2006, 07:13


Military commanders in the field in Iraq admit in private reports to the Pentagon the war "is lost" and that the U.S. military is unable to stem the mounting violence killing 1,000 Iraqi civilians a month. Even worse, they report the massacre of Iraqi civilians at Haditha is "just the tip of the iceberg" with overstressed, out-of-control Americans soldiers pushed beyond the breaking point both physically and mentally.
"We are in trouble in Iraq," says retired army general Barry McCaffrey. "Our forces can't sustain this pace, and I'm afraid the American people are walking away from this war."
Marine Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has clamped a tight security lid on the increasingly pessimistic reports coming out of field commanders in Iraq, threatening swift action against any military personnel who leak details to the press or public.
The wife of a staff sergeant with Kilo Company, the Marine Unit charged with killing civilians at Haditha, tells Newsweek magazine that the unit was a hotbed of drug abuse, alcoholism and violence.
"There were problems in Kilo company with drugs, alcohol, hazing [violent initiation games], you name it," she said. "I think it's more than possible that these guys were totally tweaked out on speed or something when they shot those civilians in Haditha."
Journalists stationed with the unit described Kilo Company and the Third Batallion of Marines as a "unit out of control," where morale had plummeted and rules went out the window.
Similar reports emerge from military units throughout Iraq and even the Iraqi prime minister describes American soldiers as trigger happy goons with little regard for the lives of civilians.
Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki says the murder of Iraqi civilians has become a "daily phenomenon" by American troops who "do not respect the Iraqi people."
"They crush them with their vehicles and kill them just on suspicion. This is completely unacceptable," Maliki said. The White House tried to play down Maliki's comments, saying the prime minister was "misquoted" although Maliki himself has yet to made such a public claim.
''Can anyone blame Iraqis for joining the resistance now?'' Mustafa al-Ani, an Iraqi analyst living in Dubai, told The Chicago Tribune. ''The resistance and the terrorists alike are feeding off the misbehavior of the American soldiers.''
As the resistance mounts and daily violence escalates, the overstressed U.S. units are unable to control the mounting violence and conclusions escalate that the war is lost.
"Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them, and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood," says Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa.
The former commander of American forces in Northern Iraq admits incidents like Haditha add to the impression that the U.S. cannot win the war.
"Allegations such as this, regardless of how they are borne out by the facts, can have an effect on the ability of U.S. forces to continue to operate," says Army Brig. Gen. Carter Ham.
Others say the incident just shows the U.S. has lost he "hearts and minds" of the Iraqi people.
"When something like Haditha happens, it gives the impression that Americans can't be trusted to provide security, which is the most important thing to Iraqis on a day-to-day level," says Anthony Cordesman, an Iraq expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. "It tends to confirm all of the worst interpretations of the United States, and not simply in Iraq, but also in Afghanistan and in the region."
© Copyright 2005 Capitol Hill Blue

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artma...ter_8790.shtml

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Military commanders in the field in Iraq admit in private reports to the Pentagon the war "is lost" and that the U.S. military is unable to stem the mounting violence

Don't tell George Bush that one and not forgetting Tony Blair.

[Onkel Neal]

Reports that we're losing the war… again? Those have been coming out every three months since the war began three years ago.


If I recall, I made my point a while back (six months ~ a year ago) that the US has done all it can do there, time to pull out. We enforced a UN resolution, made sure there were no WMDs, deposed the dictator, and helped the natives set up a democratic government. Plus we killed a lot of terrorists. No one will ever appreciate all we've done for them. The longer we stay there, the more it will look like we "lost" when we do pull out, just like Vietnam. Let the Iraqis have what they say they want, control of their destiny. They have a better shot now than they did when they were under the boot of the dictator. Time to look toward Iran.


Iraq, you're on your own. Best of luck to ya!

[CB..]

it's 70's northern ireland on a massive scale--Jim
but not as we know it...

[August]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Reports that we're losing the war… again? Those have been coming out every three months since the war began three years ago.


If I recall, I made my point a while back (six months ~ a year ago) that the US has done all it can do there, time to pull out. We enforced a UN resolution, made sure there were no WMDs, deposed the dictator, and helped the natives set up a democratic government. Plus we killed a lot of terrorists. No one will ever appreciate all we've done for them. The longer we stay there, the more it will look like we "lost" when we do pull out, just like Vietnam. Let the Iraqis have what they say they want, control of their destiny. They have a better shot now than they did when they were under the boot of the dictator. Time to look toward Iran.


Iraq, you're on your own. Best of luck to ya!

I agree 100% Neal.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Reports that we're losing the war… again? Those have been coming out every three months since the war began three years ago.


If I recall, I made my point a while back (six months ~ a year ago) that the US has done all it can do there, time to pull out. We enforced a UN resolution, made sure there were no WMDs, deposed the dictator, and helped the natives set up a democratic government. Plus we killed a lot of terrorists. No one will ever appreciate all we've done for them. The longer we stay there, the more it will look like we "lost" when we do pull out, just like Vietnam. Let the Iraqis have what they say they want, control of their destiny. They have a better shot now than they did when they were under the boot of the dictator. Time to look toward Iran.


Iraq, you're on your own. Best of luck to ya!

Have these reports been coming from the officers in the field? I see it diffrent. so far, the pentagon was spreading optimism. And bush did. And Rumsfeld as well. and his generals, too. Different suggestions so far were coming from people that were not within this apparatus, and from opposing politicians. that now those who should know it best also are reported to admit strategical defeat is new, to my best knowledge. But maybe I have missed the reports on the military saying it had lost the war, that is absolutely possible, of course. I do not scan all world medias day in, day out.However, the question now is what will be done? Waiting after the lections, when another Republican government could pull out and have four years time left to correct the negative prestige coming from that, or when a Democratic government is a thankful target to be held responsible then for having lost the war by pulling out too early? Field commanders have given it up, and they probbaly know ebtter than anyone else what they are talkiong about. so what consequences will be drawn from this? Business as usual?

[Onkel Neal]

My mistake, I didn't mean to suggest the US military has been sending reports as such from the beginning, just that one group or another has been proclaiming defeat from the beginning. Yeah, I agree, the State Dept. and Pentagon always paints a rosy picture, but one cannot expect otherwise. However, offsetting the overly optimistic picture are the press and foreign groups who opposed the military intervention--they painted a overly bleak picture.

What will be done? Pull US troops and most equipment out, hand over defense to the Iraqi govt. Make sure they are supplied with plenty of humanitarian and military aid and some human rights oversight, and let them get going with it. There has to be a time to acknowledge the US has reached its effectiveness… I suggest doing it before we get in that sloping trap of things getting worse and not wanting to leave until they are turned around. Things are as good as they are going to get under our control.

I certainly do not advocate political strategies concerning Republicans, Democrats. Let's just move on.

[Skybird]

I agree on what should be done. Like you, I have said a longer while now that it is time to pull out since nothing more can be accomplished (whereas in the early phase of the war, ignorring any political disputes and seeing it strictly militarily, I said that far more forces should be send into Iraq than what the pathetic Rumsfeld plan had prepared for). But something tells me that this administration will spend many more months with hesitating.We probably all agree in this: what a damn mess it all now is.

[Konovalov]

I would agree with what Neal has said and I would also agree with Skybird to a degree that Iraq is a mess, but then it was once named Mesopotamia many years ago. However I won't judge Iraq now as a total failure or that nothing good can come out of what has transpired over the last few years. I believe that Iraq's future is not set. There are still different paths to which Iraq can go down both positive and negative. Time will tell.

[CB..]

just give the Iraqi government an insane amount of money let them fix a few things and the the people might start being gratefull--sure most of it will end up in some corrupt guys back pocket but that's nothing new--
if the actual iraqi goverment gets the credit for fixing the electricity water etc etc etc--then it will start to seem like they are sorting out their own problems and every one can quietly go back to sleep--

[bradclark1]

No one will ever appreciate all we've done for them.

What have we done for them? Booted out a dictator and turned their country into a killing field. Funny, if I was an Iraqi I don't think I'd be feeling too grateful right now.
The problem with us (Americans) is that we try to be a noble country and free these poor oppressed people and expect them to love us. What we got is a kick in the balls.
Nothing good has been accomplished and nothing good is going to happen. We made a bad situation worse. Screw the noble cause. We are breeding terrorists by being their. Time to cut our losses, pull out and let them slaughter each other. It's time to get ready for the next world war that our granchildren will have to fight or become ragheads.

[CCIP]

I think another point in this "appreciation for all that was done for them" is "at what cost?"

I would say that both for the US and especially for Iraq, what has been accomplished has come at a disproportionate cost. I for one am not sure it was worth it.

[August]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

What have we done for them? Booted out a dictator and turned their country into a killing field. Funny, if I was an Iraqi I don't think I'd be feeling too grateful right now.
The problem with us (Americans) is that we try to be a noble country and free these poor oppressed people and expect them to love us. What we got is a kick in the balls.
Nothing good has been accomplished and nothing good is going to happen. We made a bad situation worse. Screw the noble cause. We are breeding terrorists by being their. Time to cut our losses, pull out and let them slaughter each other. It's time to get ready for the next world war that our granchildren will have to fight or become ragheads.

Do you really think the Iraqis are worse off now and forever than they were under the tryannical rule of Saddam and his henchmen?

I think the Sunnis might agree as they were the ones who benefitted the most, but the Shiites and especially the Kurds certainly wouldn't. I firmly believe that things over there will eventually stabilize but people seem to have little tolerance for the patience this process will require.

Just look at their constitution for example. Many people here in the west were complaining it took them a year to come up with a working constitution. We forget that even here in the US with the advantage of peace and prosperity it took our founding fathers over a decade to come up with something everyone could agree to and even that lasted only 60 years before a civil war erupted over what the details really meant.

[CB..]

what i can't undertsand is why America still considers it self to be at war with Iraq???

it's done we won..what your doing is losing is the peace...
beats me--

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

What have we done for them? Booted out a dictator and turned their country into a killing field.

We booted out the dictator, they are turning it into a killing field. Blame us for their lack of sense?

The problem .... is that we .... free these poor oppressed people and expect them to love us. What we got is a kick in the balls.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I said.