How many kills would a Kilo be expected to make?

04-11-06, 09:29 AM

...before it'd be destroyed? I'm not talking about the Russian's Kilo. The ones in Iranian and Chinese hands. And the theoretical opponent is the US Navy, obviously. So....how many? 1 kill for 1 Kilo or would the Kilo be expected to take out a whole flotilla before giving the game up?

Bill Nichols · 04-11-06, 09:38 AM

I'll give the Kilo one attack, then all h*** will break out.

04-11-06, 09:51 AM

Thanks for the quick reply Bill. So would that be considered a success or failure for the Kilo...cost effective wise? At what point would a Kilo be considered a "good investment"? If it took out a FFG then got destroyed...is that good for the Kilo?

Oberon · 04-11-06, 09:56 AM

Depends on the scenario, a clever captain could position his boat in a way to avoid detection and then fire a slow running torpedo and clear the datum at best speed. It's harder to do in a diesel than in a nuc I'd say but probably still possible.
However, if this is in open water, then the Kilo's dead anyway, they're primarily coastal boats, they can hide in the shallows, come out...fire...then hide again, the sonar condictions in the shallows are a little bit tougher than open water I think, so it'd be slightly easier to hide, plus you could use natural landmarks like coves and inlets, places where a nuclear boat can't go.

TLAM Strike · 04-11-06, 10:19 AM

Depends on whose commanding it. If Iâ€™m commanding trust me there going to be blood!
TLAM Strike: Mercenary Submarine Captain

But seriously a Kilo cost what 47,000,000 USD? While a FFG-7 costs only 16,000,000 USD. So nailing one FFG would not â€œpay forâ€ the Kilo.

compressioncut · 04-11-06, 10:28 AM

Iran's Kilos aren't really expected to kill anything. Just the fact that they were out, or rumored to be out, in a threatening posture would seal the Strait of Hormuz and strangle a huge amount of oil traffic out of the Persian/Arabian Gulf. That's their job.

Chinese Kilos would probably do something similar to the Malacca Strait, Spratly Islands, etc.

GunnersMate · 04-11-06, 11:05 AM

If the Iranians can get their Kilo's out of port that is a positive for them!

Bill Nichols · 04-11-06, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GunnersMate

If the Iranians can get their Kilo's out of port that is a positive for them!

Better give Iran a positive, then:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...c80b33b1d78ceb

TLAM Strike · 04-11-06, 01:07 PM

Is it just me or is there a big ass dent just under her forward planes?

JSLTIGER · 04-11-06, 01:13 PM

And here I was about to say that she looked like she was in pretty decent shape...looks like its just some rust though...maybe they've fallen into a little disrepair.

Iranian XO to CO:
"Captain, we're at 15 meters, passing crush depth!"

Henson · 04-11-06, 02:31 PM

The Iranians?

Zero.

We know when their XO farts in his sleep.

Yskonyn · 04-11-06, 02:57 PM

Lol!

But nice that the thread started off with the assumption that the Kilo would be killed no matter what.

SeaQueen · 04-11-06, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurushio

...before it'd be destroyed? I'm not talking about the Russian's Kilo. The ones in Iranian and Chinese hands. And the theoretical opponent is the US Navy, obviously. So....how many? 1 kill for 1 Kilo or would the Kilo be expected to take out a whole flotilla before giving the game up?

All by itself, I'm with Bill. I give the Kilo one salvo before they throw the kitchen sink at 'em. Then he might still luck out, but it'd be luck, not anything special about the Kilo.

Camie Jarlson · 04-11-06, 08:53 PM

These Kilos are the only thing in Iran's arsenal that make me sweat. But I don't think they're nothing the USN couldn't handle.

SeaQueen · 04-11-06, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurushio

Thanks for the quick reply Bill. So would that be considered a success or failure for the Kilo...cost effective wise? At what point would a Kilo be considered a "good investment"? If it took out a FFG then got destroyed...is that good for the Kilo?

In general, you always want to target the biggest, most expensive units, which have the biggest impact on the outcome of the war.

Taking out an FFG wouldn't be the ideal thing to do if all you had was a kilo. That'd be the kilo losing the battle.

If you were smart, you'd sit and wait, then go for a CVN or an LHA/D. If you sank one of those, it's be like another 9/11. Imagine 3-5000 Marines and sailors dead in one day. Failing that, the next best thing to go for would be logistics ships and small gators. If a kilo sank any of those, the kilo commander would probably be very happy.

This kind of marginal utility question really depends a lot on the tactics one might expect any of these nations might use. You'd probably best ask a Chinese or Iranian analyst for their thoughts on it.

04-11-06, 09:29 AM	#1
Kurushio Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	How many kills would a Kilo be expected to make? ...before it'd be destroyed? I'm not talking about the Russian's Kilo. The ones in Iranian and Chinese hands. And the theoretical opponent is the US Navy, obviously. So....how many? 1 kill for 1 Kilo or would the Kilo be expected to take out a whole flotilla before giving the game up?

04-11-06, 09:38 AM	#2
Bill Nichols Master of Defense Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 1,502 Downloads: 125 Uploads: 0	I'll give the Kilo one attack, then all h*** will break out. __________________ My Dangerous Waters website:

04-11-06, 10:19 AM	#5
TLAM Strike Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 8,633 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 6	Depends on whose commanding it. If Iâ€™m commanding trust me there going to be blood! TLAM Strike: Mercenary Submarine Captain But seriously a Kilo cost what 47,000,000 USD? While a FFG-7 costs only 16,000,000 USD. So nailing one FFG would not â€œpay forâ€ the Kilo. __________________

04-11-06, 10:28 AM	#6
compressioncut Loader Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 90 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Iran's Kilos aren't really expected to kill anything. Just the fact that they were out, or rumored to be out, in a threatening posture would seal the Strait of Hormuz and strangle a huge amount of oil traffic out of the Persian/Arabian Gulf. That's their job. Chinese Kilos would probably do something similar to the Malacca Strait, Spratly Islands, etc. __________________

04-11-06, 11:05 AM	#7
GunnersMate Lieutenant Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USS Sea Tiger Posts: 251 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	If the Iranians can get their Kilo's out of port that is a positive for them! __________________ \"Sir they just fired an Exocet at us!\" \"Very well, Bosn pipe Sweepers\" I\'m having trouble with the radar, sir. What\'s wrong with it? I\'ve lost the bleeps, I\'ve lost the sweeps, and I\'ve lost the creeps.

04-11-06, 09:51 AM	#3
Kurushio Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Thanks for the quick reply Bill. So would that be considered a success or failure for the Kilo...cost effective wise? At what point would a Kilo be considered a "good investment"? If it took out a FFG then got destroyed...is that good for the Kilo?

04-11-06, 09:56 AM	#4
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Depends on the scenario, a clever captain could position his boat in a way to avoid detection and then fire a slow running torpedo and clear the datum at best speed. It's harder to do in a diesel than in a nuc I'd say but probably still possible. However, if this is in open water, then the Kilo's dead anyway, they're primarily coastal boats, they can hide in the shallows, come out...fire...then hide again, the sonar condictions in the shallows are a little bit tougher than open water I think, so it'd be slightly easier to hide, plus you could use natural landmarks like coves and inlets, places where a nuclear boat can't go.

04-11-06, 01:07 PM	#9
TLAM Strike Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 8,633 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 6	Is it just me or is there a big ass dent just under her forward planes? __________________

04-11-06, 01:13 PM	#10
JSLTIGER The Old Man Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Parkland, FL, USA Posts: 1,437 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	And here I was about to say that she looked like she was in pretty decent shape...looks like its just some rust though...maybe they've fallen into a little disrepair. Iranian XO to CO: "Captain, we're at 15 meters, passing crush depth!" __________________ Thor: Intel Core i7 4770K\|ASUS Z87Pro\|32GB DDR3 RAM\|11GB EVGA GeForce RTX 2080Ti Black\|256GB Crucial M4 SSD+2TB WD HDD\|4X LG BD-RE\|32" Acer Predator Z321QU 165Hz G-Sync (2540x1440)\|Logitech Z-323 2.1 Sound\|Win 10 Pro Explorer (MSI GL63 8RE-629 Laptop): Intel Core i7 8750H\|16GB DDR4 RAM\|6GB GeForce GTX 1060\|128GB SSD+1TB HDD\|15.6" Widescreen (1920x1080)\|Logitech R-20 2.1 Sound\|Win 10 Home

04-11-06, 02:31 PM	#11
Henson Planesman Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 185 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	The Iranians? Zero. We know when their XO farts in his sleep.

04-11-06, 02:57 PM	#12
Yskonyn Sailor man Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Netherlands Posts: 48 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	Lol! But nice that the thread started off with the assumption that the Kilo would be killed no matter what. __________________ Yskonyn - *"The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire..."*

04-11-06, 08:53 PM	#14
Camie Jarlson Swabbie Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: In the ASTAC station Posts: 6 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	These Kilos are the only thing in Iran's arsenal that make me sweat. But I don't think they're nothing the USN couldn't handle.