Identifying contacts...

Enigma · 05-31-06, 06:58 PM

So, as some of you know, im super new to the sim....

Im wondering about when/how my autocrew identifys what it is im chasing or listening to. Is it a matter of time? distance?

LoBlo · 05-31-06, 07:25 PM

I've been playing the game for about 7months and I still can't tell when and why the AutoCrew assigns the contacts it does. Most of the time they are wrong btw, don't trust them. Its always better to do your own classification.

Also note that even after you've classified a contact yourself, the autocrew will go back and override your original classification sometimes, which is very annoying and something I've been meaning to ask SCS to fix in the patch suggestions thread.

Enigma · 05-31-06, 07:36 PM

Hmm. thats odd, being that in modern subs, as far as I undertstand it, the sound is run thru a computer which immedietly spits out the closest match from its library of sound...especially for Russain Subs....:hmm:

TLAM Strike · 05-31-06, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enigma

Hmm. thats odd, being that in modern subs, as far as I undertstand it, the sound is run thru a computer which immedietly spits out the closest match from its library of sound...especially for Russain Subs....:hmm:

...... pffffhhhh WHAHAHAHAHAHA Maybe if your aboard the seaQuest! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

LoBlo · 05-31-06, 07:48 PM

Well, technically that's what the autocrew does and also what manual classification is about too. Problem is that when you only have a very faint signal its usually not enough to tell what the contact type is... just that theirs something there.

For example, the lowest frequency is usually detected before the other sound frequencies (because low frequencies travel further in water)... in the game its usually the 50 or 60Hz signal. However, just about every ship in the game has either a 50 or 60 Hz signal as its lowest frequency (its related to the electric power frequencies used on the ship...) so this signal in and of itself is not enough to tell the ship type and you'll need to get more frequencies to classify the unique frequency pattern of a specific type.

To see what I mean try Heinrich Liebe's stellar and generous Sonar Profile Utility
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=82476
(note: I think the Oscar II frequencies are wrong in the database.

Enigma · 05-31-06, 08:06 PM

Thanks for the informative and mature response, Loblo. Maybe you can teach T-Lam about how thats done.

LoBlo · 05-31-06, 08:15 PM

Don't mind TLAM he's just a little cocky since he's gotten the whole "Navy Seals" titile and all... "Look at meeee, I'm a Navy Seal, blah blah blah" j/k

btw, iirc, though I may be wrong, some of the guides on SubGuru's site discuss a little about sonar operations i think though I can't remember which one's http://www.subguru.com/downloads.html

on a side note..

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

...... pffffhhhh WHAHAHAHAHAHA Maybe if your aboard the seaQuest! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Hey TLAM, isn't your name going to be obsolete in a few years... you'll have to change it to "HyStrike"

TLAM Strike · 05-31-06, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enigma

Thanks for the informative and mature response, Loblo. Maybe you can teach T-Lam about how thats done.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88747 Pay attention to Sonar732 he a former sonar operator on a boomer.

TLAM Strike · 05-31-06, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoBlo

Don't mind TLAM he's just a little cocky since he's gotten the whole "Navy Seals" titile and all... "Look at meeee, I'm a Navy Seal, blah blah blah" j/k

Just gotten a little cocky? Your new right? :p

Quote:

Hey TLAM, isn't your name going to be obsolete in a few years... you'll have to change it to "HyStrike"

Why not someone already suggested I change it to "Seahawk Strike" after I took out 3 SSNs and 1 SSBN in a MP game in a Seahawk.

Henson · 05-31-06, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enigma

Hmm. thats odd, being that in modern subs, as far as I undertstand it, the sound is run thru a computer which immedietly spits out the closest match from its library of sound...especially for Russain Subs....:hmm:

We wish that were true. STS's spend years learning intel and profiles. There is a reason. Just as a recent report intoned, 'Automatic TMA algorithms are still consistently outperformed by human operators,' nothing will ever replace a human STS analyzing data.

Enigma · 05-31-06, 09:44 PM

This isnt where I got the idea that that was the case, but im reminded of Hunt for Red October....The soundman picked up a typhoon, and the computer spit out a print out that told them which boat it was based on its sound profile...im sure thats all hollywood.

I was sure I had read that that was how it was done....but I guess im mistaken...

Shocker!

Henson · 05-31-06, 10:11 PM

Actually, it's not far off from the truth. We just prefer that our people know more than the machines.

LoBlo · 05-31-06, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Just gotten a little cocky? Your new right? :p

hehe, yeah, guess I'm still fairly new... actually I've been around since last fall, but I've changed by name with the new forums...new forum, new name

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henson

Actually, it's not far off from the truth. We just prefer that our people know more than the machines.

no doubt, heck I'll take my skillz with the sonar profile database above over the autocrew anyday.

LuftWolf · 06-01-06, 03:03 AM

The only autocrews you should consider using after your first 5 hours playing the game are the Active Intercept Autocrew and Radar Autocrew (which there is really no reason to ever turn off), and the autoTMA autocrew, which is something some players always use and some players never use, but it's really alright to play the game one way or another in terms of the aTMA in 1.03.

As far as the sonar autocrew, it does a poor job, and it really is something the player should be doing himself, since it's a basic part of the game (and the autocrew is bad at it).

FERdeBOER · 06-01-06, 04:42 AM

I my opinion, the only way to use sonar autocrew is with TMA auto also, because the AI marks EVERYTHING (sometimes even things that you are unable to see), and if you make manual TMA with sonar autocrew you will become cracy merging and dropping contacts.
And worst of it: that ship classified by the AI as a freighter... sudently is a submarine! general quarters, general quarters!! all hands... wait... no, is a fishing boat... no, an Oscar!!... no... a torpedo??...

I agree with LuftWolf about using autocrew only on active intercept and radar.

05-31-06, 06:58 PM	#1
Enigma The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: At comms depth, obviously. Posts: 1,476 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	Identifying contacts... So, as some of you know, im super new to the sim.... Im wondering about when/how my autocrew identifys what it is im chasing or listening to. Is it a matter of time? distance? __________________ "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." -Mark Twain

05-31-06, 07:25 PM	#2
LoBlo Subsim Diehard Join Date: May 2006 Location: Texas! Posts: 971 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 3	I've been playing the game for about 7months and I still can't tell when and why the AutoCrew assigns the contacts it does. Most of the time they are wrong btw, don't trust them. Its always better to do your own classification. Also note that even after you've classified a contact yourself, the autocrew will go back and override your original classification sometimes, which is very annoying and something I've been meaning to ask SCS to fix in the patch suggestions thread. __________________ "Seek not to offend or annoy... only to speak the truth"-a wise man

05-31-06, 07:36 PM	#3
Enigma The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: At comms depth, obviously. Posts: 1,476 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	Hmm. thats odd, being that in modern subs, as far as I undertstand it, the sound is run thru a computer which immedietly spits out the closest match from its library of sound...especially for Russain Subs....:hmm: __________________ "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." -Mark Twain

05-31-06, 07:48 PM	#5
LoBlo Subsim Diehard Join Date: May 2006 Location: Texas! Posts: 971 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 3	Well, technically that's what the autocrew does and also what manual classification is about too. Problem is that when you only have a very faint signal its usually not enough to tell what the contact type is... just that theirs something there. For example, the lowest frequency is usually detected before the other sound frequencies (because low frequencies travel further in water)... in the game its usually the 50 or 60Hz signal. However, just about every ship in the game has either a 50 or 60 Hz signal as its lowest frequency (its related to the electric power frequencies used on the ship...) so this signal in and of itself is not enough to tell the ship type and you'll need to get more frequencies to classify the unique frequency pattern of a specific type. To see what I mean try Heinrich Liebe's stellar and generous Sonar Profile Utility http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=82476 (note: I think the Oscar II frequencies are wrong in the database. __________________ "Seek not to offend or annoy... only to speak the truth"-a wise man

05-31-06, 08:06 PM	#6
Enigma The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: At comms depth, obviously. Posts: 1,476 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	Thanks for the informative and mature response, Loblo. Maybe you can teach T-Lam about how thats done. __________________ "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." -Mark Twain

05-31-06, 09:44 PM	#11
Enigma The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: At comms depth, obviously. Posts: 1,476 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	This isnt where I got the idea that that was the case, but im reminded of Hunt for Red October....The soundman picked up a typhoon, and the computer spit out a print out that told them which boat it was based on its sound profile...im sure thats all hollywood. I was sure I had read that that was how it was done....but I guess im mistaken... Shocker! __________________ "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." -Mark Twain

05-31-06, 10:11 PM	#12
Henson Planesman Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 185 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	Actually, it's not far off from the truth. We just prefer that our people know more than the machines.

06-01-06, 03:03 AM	#14
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	The only autocrews you should consider using after your first 5 hours playing the game are the Active Intercept Autocrew and Radar Autocrew (which there is really no reason to ever turn off), and the autoTMA autocrew, which is something some players always use and some players never use, but it's really alright to play the game one way or another in terms of the aTMA in 1.03. As far as the sonar autocrew, it does a poor job, and it really is something the player should be doing himself, since it's a basic part of the game (and the autocrew is bad at it). __________________ LW

06-01-06, 04:42 AM	#15
FERdeBOER XO Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 431 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 1	I my opinion, the only way to use sonar autocrew is with TMA auto also, because the AI marks EVERYTHING (sometimes even things that you are unable to see), and if you make manual TMA with sonar autocrew you will become cracy merging and dropping contacts. And worst of it: that ship classified by the AI as a freighter... sudently is a submarine! general quarters, general quarters!! all hands... wait... no, is a fishing boat... no, an Oscar!!... no... a torpedo??... I agree with LuftWolf about using autocrew only on active intercept and radar. __________________ Hay dos tipos de buques: los submarinos... y los blancos. There are two types of ships: the subs... and the targets. Last edited by FERdeBOER; 06-01-06 at 04:45 AM.