From the Kaptain

[Kpt. Lehmann]

After deep conversation with the senior active members of the GW team and careful consideration...

I would like to offer my apologies to the NYGM team for using the NYGM ship damage model. Furthermore, we will be discontinuing the use of the same in future evolutions of the The Grey Wolves.

Using the NYGM ship damage model became a clear-cut case of good intentions gone a little sideways. We used the mod and properly credited it, but ruffled some feathers when we adjusted it.

Also, in the interest of mod compatability, logistics, and defeating potential future misunderstandings, we are dropping our support and/or recognition of the "GW Add-In for TW" or any combination thereof.

I wish to offer my apologies to Observer as well. He is a good man and I know he is the soldier who has been welding and hammering the pieces of GW-TW together. I know very personally that this is no small task.

I am sure NYGM fans won't be disadvantaged or disappointed by either decision as it is quite clear that the NYGM team has developed a healthy following and has benifited by the use of campaign file variants designed for GW by Rubini.

For those of you who enjoy The Grey Wolves Supermod we will not let you down either as we will be replacing the ship damage model with one that will be interesting, innovative, and historically minded in its own right for our next major release.

Both decisions are in the interest of our respective teams.

This is not an effort to be harmful to... or factionalize the community... as it truly was already factionalized before our respective team's arrivals. As long as people have preferences and interpret data differently, there will be factions. As long as we have motivated people who are willing to work for free... we will have free mods and freedom of choice. We simply have different points of view and have been human enough to make mistakes.

We are correcting those mistakes.

Someone will no doubt, eventually build an "after-market" mod that joins The Grey Wolves and The Tonnage War or something similar. However, it is the player's experience that we care about... and that calls for the teams to not have split attention on "a merger." In truth a mod team can really only support its own mod effectively.

Our intent is to relieve any perceived notion of duty between one team or the other to tailor the opposing mod packages. Though this will no doubt draw fire from some users... and have some temporary fallout... it will provide clarity. This is the best solution. It will save a lot of nerves and, in the end, it will not result in any great problems.

This is only a final word, not a signal to start some nasty debate or flame war. There's been enough of that already. There has just been no simple way to do it.

Sink them all!

[deckard]

why not join forces whit the NYGM team?

what i love most whit the SH3 modding community is that we are a community,

[Salvadoreno]

jeez what happened? I mean i was looking foward to an easy conversion of these two mods without all the crashes to desktop. O well. I guess ill have to make a choice now.

[JCWolf]

I think this will benefit both teams and Mods, since there will not be anymore confusions betwin the 2 mods, and in mi opinion will enforce the community with the teams beeing concentrated just on their owne Mods...


Nothing rong with separating the MODS cause it will clarify the situation for everyone...


We have now the chance and knowlidge of chosing with much more understanding of what one and another Mod offers...

And nothing hapend betwin the 2 mod teams, we just whant to save miss understandings and help everyone in the Community by clarifying the all thing...

I think this will improve even more this mods and the all forum...

[Montbrun]

Unfortunately, anything said is going to be perceived by the community as "sour grapes" - somebody pissed in somebody else's cornflakes....LOL

[The Noob]

Come on!

It would suck to have 2 very good supermods wich are not combined...

Please Sort your SH!T out and join forces to create THE BEST SUPERMOD FOR SH3 EVER!

Come on...don't let us hanging in the SH!T Bro.

[GreyOctober]

Originally Posted by The Noob

Come on...don't let us hanging in the SH!T Bro.

I belive thats technically impossible due to the fact that t....

[gouldjg]

Not really Montbrun

Check the Poll (No underwater external repairs, are you ready?).

I talk to DT and actually think it is now better as we can help each others teams out in parts of the game everybody wants to see a common improvement on without having to go through mass processes of communications and permissions as well as inter mod compatibility issues. Sooner or later, there will probably be a need to combine works but at the moment, each team needs to concentrate on new findings and actually making them work.

NYGM has my greatest respect in what they are achieving and I know how much works goes into it. The amount of times a game has to be started, loaded, tested, shutdown, tweaked, started loaded etc.

If we can save each other the hours needed of this testing period as well as sharing new ideas, we do each other favors.

Ultimately, there will be more choices for the players and that is what we all want .

Also, it will provide more feedback to the new dev team of sh4 as to what type of game will generate the best interest of the community.

NYGM has great features, and GW has great features, DEV team for sh4 need to combine the best of both and create a great set of options for the next release.

Nobody is going to be left in the sh*t

That is my view anyway,

[The Noob]

Originally Posted by gouldjg

Nobody is going to be left in the sh*t

Very Well! :|\

[mikaelanderlund]

Hi Kpt. Lehmann,

Any news about your next major release or the new ship damage model for GW?

Mikael

[Pdubya]

Not really Montbrun

Check the Poll (No underwater external repairs, are you ready?).

I talk to DT and actually think it is now better as we can help each others teams out in parts of the game everybody wants to see a common improvement on without having to go through mass processes of communications and permissions as well as inter mod compatibility issues. Sooner or later, there will probably be a need to combine works but at the moment, each team needs to concentrate on new findings and actually making them work.

NYGM has my greatest respect in what they are achieving and I know how much works goes into it. The amount of times a game has to be started, loaded, tested, shutdown, tweaked, started loaded etc.

If we can save each other the hours needed of this testing period as well as sharing new ideas, we do each other favors.

Ultimately, there will be more choices for the players and that is what we all want .

Also, it will provide more feedback to the new dev team of sh4 as to what type of game will generate the best interest of the community.

NYGM has great features, and GW has great features, DEV team for sh4 need to combine the best of both and create a great set of options for the next release.

Nobody is going to be left in the sh*t

That is my view anyway,

Well said Gouldjg- I would rather have the two teams concentrating on their individual mods anyway. Besides, as the Kapitan said... the more you merge mods, the more likely it will be that you include a part players won't care for in their game.
Bitching about it now won't change matters anyway.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Teddy Barr.

The GW team has had enough of your attitude problem and "holier than thou" view towards our efforts.

Here and now I am going to address your disdainfulness and clarify issues you have painted in an incorrect light for the community.

Originally Posted by Der Teddy Bar

They show a total lack of proper
testing and understanding of moding.

The idea that just because you take add additional 'data'
under the group heading it will get used is just silly.

...all they have done is add some useless values.

Now CB has really hacked it up. He has removed the
original entires of Detection time, Sensitivity & Height
factor. Then he has added a lot of useless values.

...improper procedure & testing in the hopes that next time
there will not again be thousands of hours wasted.

We will no longer tolerate your efforts to discredit the
GW mod on a case by case/file by file basis.

Originally Posted by Der Teddy Bar

GW has stated that they will not use any NYGM mods as per
Kpt's post.
I believe that this stems from NYGM's request that GW
does not make changes to any of the NYGM work that GW
includes as it would then possibly lead to NYGM mods
being percieved incorrectly.

Not only have you mis-quoted me, but you have twisted
this statement to meet your needs.

The joint merger was cancelled/terminated by the GW team
because you denied us access to the NYGM/GW merger files
you posted on FileFront.com.

Furthermore,regarding your concern that the use of the
NYGM ship damage model as used and or tweaked by the GW
team potentially showing a bad light on the NYGM team...

The same can be said of your mod by the GW team using the NYGM ship DM's. If it didn't need fixing, we wouldn't have needed to
tweak it.

Originally Posted by Der Teddy Bar

A case in point is the Tug Boat that GW supplied had been
moded by GW and as a result had no damage zones, at all
and is why it would not sink. NYGM discovered this for GW
and let them know.

Here! Eat this cookie while I play the violin for you.
It was a simple data entry error that even you could
make. Thank you for helping us fix it... Now come down from the mountain!

Originally Posted by Der Teddy Bar

As the above example demostrates though, it was the NYGM
Ship Damage Mod that was made to look bad as well, its
the bit that makes the ships sink the way that they
do.

Again,regarding your concern that the use of the NYGM
ship damage model as used and or tweaked by the GW team
potentially showing a bad light on the NYGM team... The
same can be said of your mod by the GW team. If it didn't
need fixing, we wouldn't have needed to tweak it.

You also do not recognize that the success that GW has
enjoyed, has also brought POSITIVE recognition to the
NYGM ship damage models time and time again.

Originally Posted by Der Teddy Bar

Kpt said that he will do what ever they pleases with
NYGM's Ship Damage Mod... I objected... and thus the NYGM
& GW merger is a thing of the past.

NEGATIVE! Again, We (The GW team) made the decision to
cancel the NYGM/GW merger as you refused us access to the
files you posted on FileFront.

Again you mis-quoted me. What I said was this:

"Please note, the GW team may alter any included file to
mesh as required by the needs of the GW Supermod for the
sake of (file) cohesion or to achieve a desired effect.
This is how discoveries and better mods are made."

The above is a necessary statement which allows us to
attempt on-the-spot fixes in ANY file where necessary.

You act as if this was tantamount to something
SEAWOLVES/X1 might do... which you have ACCUSED US OF
BEING SIMILAR TO IN PRIVATE SIMPLY BECAUSE WE DECIDED TO
USE YOUR SHIP DM!!! LOL, not only did we credit you as
the builder/designer, we paid you high praise.

You forget yourself. Just as you do, we spend our free
time modding SH3 attempting to improve the game for
players that wish to use mods in their games. Where GW
is concerned, NO OTHER mod team has had the courage to
build and release a package that addresses so many
bug-fixes, realism issues, sound and graphics
improvements... in the same package.

Where CB is concerned... he had the courage to address
the DD behavior issue and we followed that thread. We
included the best information available to us at the time
of release. I could go on and on here. Not only are
you insulting CB... but everyone who contributed to that
thread.

About ten days before the release of GW 1.0 DTB, you
urged me to combine our efforts with his in order to "not
factionalize the community..."

DTB... your thoughtlessness and total lack of respect for
others feelings and efforts shines through with peerless
clarity. If anyone has "factionalized" the community, it
has been you... as demonstrated by your total disregard for the efforts of others.

Excercising a little tact will not only serve you well in this
forum... but in real life as well.

I suggest that you do whatever you must to learn to
co-exist. The GW mod team isn't going anywhere and GW
WILL REMAIN (more certainly now than ever) a STAND-ALONE
mod offered to the community as an installable option.

Having freedom of CHOICE enriches the community... It does not fracture it!

Not only do you owe the GW team an unconditional
apology... but you owe one to CB for trashing his
efforts, and to your own team for embarrasing them.

Ende.

[JCWolf]

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

Teddy Barr.

The GW team has had enough of your attitude problem and "holier than thou" view towards our efforts.

Here and now I am going to address your disdainfulness and clarify issues you have painted in an incorrect light for the community.

We will no longer tolerate your efforts to discredit the
GW mod on a case by case/file by file basis.

Not only have you mis-quoted me, but you have twisted
this statement to meet your needs.

The joint merger was cancelled/terminated by the GW team
because you denied us access to the NYGM/GW merger files
you posted on FileFront.com.

Furthermore,regarding your concern that the use of the
NYGM ship damage model as used and or tweaked by the GW
team potentially showing a bad light on the NYGM team...

The same can be said of your mod by the GW team using the NYGM ship DM's. If it didn't need fixing, we wouldn't have needed to
tweak it.

Here! Eat this cookie while I play the violin for you.
It was a simple data entry error that even you could
make. Thank you for helping us fix it... Now come down from the mountain!

Again,regarding your concern that the use of the NYGM
ship damage model as used and or tweaked by the GW team
potentially showing a bad light on the NYGM team... The
same can be said of your mod by the GW team. If it didn't
need fixing, we wouldn't have needed to tweak it.

You also do not recognize that the success that GW has
enjoyed, has also brought POSITIVE recognition to the
NYGM ship damage models time and time again.

NEGATIVE! Again, We (The GW team) made the decision to
cancel the NYGM/GW merger as you refused us access to the
files you posted on FileFront.

Again you mis-quoted me. What I said was this:

"Please note, the GW team may alter any included file to
mesh as required by the needs of the GW Supermod for the
sake of (file) cohesion or to achieve a desired effect.
This is how discoveries and better mods are made."

The above is a necessary statement which allows us to
attempt on-the-spot fixes in ANY file where necessary.

You act as if this was tantamount to something
SEAWOLVES/X1 might do... which you have ACCUSED US OF
BEING SIMILAR TO IN PRIVATE SIMPLY BECAUSE WE DECIDED TO
USE YOUR SHIP DM!!! LOL, not only did we credit you as
the builder/designer, we paid you high praise.

You forget yourself. Just as you do, we spend our free
time modding SH3 attempting to improve the game for
players that wish to use mods in their games. Where GW
is concerned, NO OTHER mod team has had the courage to
build and release a package that addresses so many
bug-fixes, realism issues, sound and graphics
improvements... in the same package.

Where CB is concerned... he had the courage to address
the DD behavior issue and we followed that thread. We
included the best information available to us at the time
of release. I could go on and on here. Not only are
you insulting CB... but everyone who contributed to that
thread.

About ten days before the release of GW 1.0 DTB, you
urged me to combine our efforts with his in order to "not
factionalize the community..."

DTB... your thoughtlessness and total lack of respect for
others feelings and efforts shines through with peerless
clarity. If anyone has "factionalized" the community, it
has been you... as demonstrated by your total disregard for the efforts of others.

Excercising a little tact will not only serve you well in this
forum... but in real life as well.

I suggest that you do whatever you must to learn to
co-exist. The GW mod team isn't going anywhere and GW
WILL REMAIN (more certainly now than ever) a STAND-ALONE
mod offered to the community as an installable option.

Having freedom of CHOICE enriches the community... It does not fracture it!

Not only do you owe the GW team an unconditional
apology... but you owe one to CB for trashing his
efforts, and to your own team for embarrasing them.

Ende.

I don't understand some of this T.Bar talks, but I specially find this part very intressting and some how even a litlle funny:

Originally Posted by Der Teddy Bar

They show a total lack of proper
testing and understanding of moding.

The idea that just because you take add additional 'data'
under the group heading it will get used is just silly.

...all they have done is add some useless values.

Now CB has really hacked it up. He has removed the
original entires of Detection time, Sensitivity & Height
factor. Then he has added a lot of useless values.

...improper procedure & testing in the hopes that next time
there will not again be thousands of hours wasted.

I thrully do not understand were in the name of God did Teddy Bar saw that to launch such a pack of" beautifull" words, about a Mod that at least for me was instaled without any problems at all, and i have a low end PC, considuring mi poor Ram (512mb), with the NYGM it was exactelly the oposite stuff, i tryed on to install around 12 or 14 times the Mod in all diferent ways i could possible install it, and never could really play it cause in didn't worked for me...

And finally came the GW mod with his amazinglly large size 2 Gbs. and hight level on graphics and gameplay, and installed wothout problems and played it since then....

So.... Were is the lack of testing now mi friend????


Any way i din't see any reazon to descredit what is without any doubt one of the best mods on the all SH III Community only cause you don't agree with something or someone...

[The Noob]

Kpt. Lehmann and Teddy Bar, Get Adult!

Stop flaming each others mod's.
It's just getting Silly!

[Ducimus]

up until now i havent taken sides (beacuse i dont use either mod, i use my own), but i have to admit, DTB really lost me with that post of his. The condensending, holier than thou, tone he took was totally uncalled for and unwarranted. If there was an attack made, he most certainly threw the first punch.

I however, since i dont use either mod (although i did contribute to the community effort that TDB took a big giant schitt on), am resigning myself to the peanut gallery on the sidelines.