Why play a U-boat sim?

[Antonin]

I don't actually have SH3 yet. Still weighing the comments of the very kind people on this forum re the risk of Starforce.

But in doing my research for possibly buying SH3, I read some comments on Amazon. Some reviewers loved the game, some hated it. Some complained that it was boring because sometimes the patrols didn't produce any action. I thought, "Well, these people are missing the point! Sometimes that's how it was in real life."

Some gamers apparently buy and play SH3 not because they are interested in or knowledgeable about German submarines, but just because it's another game where they can blow stuff up.

For me, the appeal of a U-boat sim lies in its ability to hopefully recreate or simulate a piece of history. I've been very interested in German submariners for many years partly because of the espirit d'corps of the U-boat arm, partly because of my fascination with the evolving tactics and technical upgrades, partly because of the 'what-if' aspect (they did, in fact, have the British worried), and partly because of the interesting contradiction of mostly honorable warriors serving such a negative cause. Most of them showed an incredible amount of 'pluck' and courage.

When I played AOD I never minded the slow times on patrol. I would conduct practice dives, or sometimes go up top at night and 'lean against the railing' of the conning tower and just watch the moon. I remember passing close by the English coast one night and seeing a lone freighter hugging the shore and thinking "Sail on, kamerad enemy. We'll have peace between us tonight."

To those of you who have SH3, why do you play? Is it just another game? An historical tool? A way to escape your RL and 'put to sea' for an evening of adventure, away from the wife and kids?

Are you primarily a gamer or an historian? I'm not saying either is more 'legitimate' than the other, I'm just curious to know. Before I read the comments on Amazon it never occurred to me that a non-historian would be interested in a U-boat sim.

[vois2]

Antonin --

I think you'll find a large mix of those who love both history and gaming. It's hard to play this game and not become interested or intrigued by the methods and facts of the real U-boat war.

This game is a great deal at now less than US$20. If you want to avoid the StarForce issue, just order the game from the online distributor. The online downloadable version does not include the drivers from StarForce which affect the operation and interactivity with the CD/DVD drive -- for obvious reasons. (It includes three, but not the critical fourth, Starforce driver.)

The real secret to this game is the many tens of thousands of hours that the modder community has put into making it a much better game. The stock game as delivered is a great place to start learning how to play SH3. And then once you have a good feel for the game, patiently ask around for the unified mods. With a unified mod, you'll play a MUCH more interesting game ... more beautiful, exciting, and charging than the stock game by a mile.

Keep in mind that the sort of investment the mod community has made into this game is ongoing for more than one year. This is evidence that the game just keeps on providing new ways to play.

As an example ... want to know WHICH ACTUAL REAL HISTORICAL CONVOYS WERE AT SEA IN THE CORRECT OCEAN LOCATION ON A GIVEN DATE? jasonb885's convoy mod accounts this. You'll be hunting the real thing on the real date and location. Talk about stepping back in time.

Or ... would you like to aim a torpedo at the ship? ... or WOULD YOU LIKE TO DO MUCH MORE DAMAGE BY TAKING AIM AT THE SHIP'S ENGINE ROOM ON THE AFT SIDE OF THE FORTIFIED BULKING? You can do it, thanks to mods that show you where the engine room is located on the ship's blueprint.

And maybe ... you'd like to sail the Mediterranean as a lone German U-boat. Or how about SNEAKING DISGUISED AROUND THE MED HIDDEN AMONGST A LARGE AXIS CONVOY TO PROTECT YOU UNTIL YOU CLOSE IN ON A BIG BRITISH NAVAL BASE FOR YOUR DANGEROUS TARGET? Let's say the naval air protection at the British base detects the convoy's presence. Imagine a huge naval and naval air battle happening all around you, dozens of planes from both sides in the sky, a horizon lit with big guns firing and crippled warplanes crashing into the ocean (or into ships as they go down).

It happens, thanks to the mods.

[CCIP]

For me, it's the elusive idea of "immersion". A good simulator, as someone once said, is simply a role-playing game at heart - a role-playing game that draws you in even more because it actually reflects something very real.

SHIII scores high points in this regard, for me, for a very simple reason: continuity. A lot of simulators are set up as "attack simulations", with campaigns being simply consecutive and developing chains of "attacks". SHIII, as a good subsim, is different since it can also be a patrol simulator. The fact that I don't spend most of the time attacking makes it pretty interesting for me, actually.

SHIII is really the first simulator where I felt that I was "in the war" - mods and WaW only helped more. The huge 'dynamic' campaign really gives you that "big picture feel". There are ways for you to do what you want and hunt where you want (if you want), or make up your own missions - room for imagination! Crew management (with the help of mods) gives it that human element. Then there is WaW that gives it a context with "others out there".

So, I'm loving it.

[The Noob]

Without Mod's SH3 Would Be Crap!

[Ducimus]

>>Are you primarily a gamer or an historian?

Im a little of both. I've modded my own game extensivley and i first look for historical value or detail. Then i ask myself, "is this fun?" If i answer, "not really" then i look for a balance between gamey and historically accurate. My personal goal is to have an immersive, and engaging experince.

This isnt to say im into a just blowing stuff up.. on the contrary i love it when im getting depth charged by escorts that know what their doing, not to mention i primarly do long range patrols, micromanaging my diesal fuel usage I can go for weeks without seeing anything at all. (espiecially during that 20-25 day transit to my assigned patrol area )

[CCIP]

>>Are you primarily a gamer or an historian?

The latter more than the former, but both in some sense. History makes games more appealing to me

[Salvadoreno]

Originally Posted by vois2

Antonin --

I think you'll find a large mix of those who love both history and gaming. It's hard to play this game and not become interested or intrigued by the methods and facts of the real U-boat war.

This game is a great deal at now less than US$20. If you want to avoid the StarForce issue, just order the game from the online distributor. The online downloadable version does not include the drivers from StarForce which affect the operation and interactivity with the CD/DVD drive -- for obvious reasons. (It includes three, but not the critical fourth, Starforce driver.)

The real secret to this game is the many tens of thousands of hours that the modder community has put into making it a much better game. The stock game as delivered is a great place to start learning how to play SH3. And then once you have a good feel for the game, patiently ask around for the unified mods. With a unified mod, you'll play a MUCH more interesting game ... more beautiful, exciting, and charging than the stock game by a mile.

Keep in mind that the sort of investment the mod community has made into this game is ongoing for more than one year. This is evidence that the game just keeps on providing new ways to play.

As an example ... want to know WHICH ACTUAL REAL HISTORICAL CONVOYS WERE AT SEA IN THE CORRECT OCEAN LOCATION ON A GIVEN DATE? jasonb885's convoy mod accounts this. You'll be hunting the real thing on the real date and location. Talk about stepping back in time.

Or ... would you like to aim a torpedo at the ship? ... or WOULD YOU LIKE TO DO MUCH MORE DAMAGE BY TAKING AIM AT THE SHIP'S ENGINE ROOM ON THE AFT SIDE OF THE FORTIFIED BULKING? You can do it, thanks to mods that show you where the engine room is located on the ship's blueprint.

And maybe ... you'd like to sail the Mediterranean as a lone German U-boat. Or how about SNEAKING DISGUISED AROUND THE MED HIDDEN AMONGST A LARGE AXIS CONVOY TO PROTECT YOU UNTIL YOU CLOSE IN ON A BIG BRITISH NAVAL BASE FOR YOUR DANGEROUS TARGET? Let's say the naval air protection at the British base detects the convoy's presence. Imagine a huge naval and naval air battle happening all around you, dozens of planes from both sides in the sky, a horizon lit with big guns firing and crippled warplanes crashing into the ocean (or into ships as they go down).

It happens, thanks to the mods.

HaH yes i have seriously become a u-boat fanatic after playing this game. Its great, and my u-boat knowledge came in handy at school today when i student brought up Das Boot and i knew what commander they represented, what u-baot it was historically, and other crap that made me look smart. hah! take that freind who didnt think my knowledge would come useful!

And as the scenario he described about following a freindly convoy in the Mediteranean. It happens! It happeend to me using the NYGM tonnage war mod. Im telling ya mods make this community, it never seen such dedicated modders before. They are beyond excellent. And lemme tell ya, when u have been alone in the atlantic or med while on war patrol, i cant describe the feeling when u see a little help in the form of stukas or a convoy. I ran to in italian convoy heading to tripoli a few patrols back and they escorted me thru the most dangerous parts of the mediteranean, but not without a few attacks from some British planes that wanted to stop ROmmels supplies!

[Salvadoreno]

Originally Posted by vois2

Antonin --

I think you'll find a large mix of those who love both history and gaming. It's hard to play this game and not become interested or intrigued by the methods and facts of the real U-boat war.

This game is a great deal at now less than US$20. If you want to avoid the StarForce issue, just order the game from the online distributor. The online downloadable version does not include the drivers from StarForce which affect the operation and interactivity with the CD/DVD drive -- for obvious reasons. (It includes three, but not the critical fourth, Starforce driver.)

The real secret to this game is the many tens of thousands of hours that the modder community has put into making it a much better game. The stock game as delivered is a great place to start learning how to play SH3. And then once you have a good feel for the game, patiently ask around for the unified mods. With a unified mod, you'll play a MUCH more interesting game ... more beautiful, exciting, and charging than the stock game by a mile.

Keep in mind that the sort of investment the mod community has made into this game is ongoing for more than one year. This is evidence that the game just keeps on providing new ways to play.

As an example ... want to know WHICH ACTUAL REAL HISTORICAL CONVOYS WERE AT SEA IN THE CORRECT OCEAN LOCATION ON A GIVEN DATE? jasonb885's convoy mod accounts this. You'll be hunting the real thing on the real date and location. Talk about stepping back in time.

Or ... would you like to aim a torpedo at the ship? ... or WOULD YOU LIKE TO DO MUCH MORE DAMAGE BY TAKING AIM AT THE SHIP'S ENGINE ROOM ON THE AFT SIDE OF THE FORTIFIED BULKING? You can do it, thanks to mods that show you where the engine room is located on the ship's blueprint.

And maybe ... you'd like to sail the Mediterranean as a lone German U-boat. Or how about SNEAKING DISGUISED AROUND THE MED HIDDEN AMONGST A LARGE AXIS CONVOY TO PROTECT YOU UNTIL YOU CLOSE IN ON A BIG BRITISH NAVAL BASE FOR YOUR DANGEROUS TARGET? Let's say the naval air protection at the British base detects the convoy's presence. Imagine a huge naval and naval air battle happening all around you, dozens of planes from both sides in the sky, a horizon lit with big guns firing and crippled warplanes crashing into the ocean (or into ships as they go down).

It happens, thanks to the mods.

HaH yes i have seriously become a u-boat fanatic after playing this game. Its great, and my u-boat knowledge came in handy at school today when i student brought up Das Boot and i knew what commander they represented, what u-baot it was historically, and other crap that made me look smart. hah! take that freind who didnt think my knowledge would come useful!

And as the scenario he described about following a freindly convoy in the Mediteranean. It happens! It happeend to me using the NYGM tonnage war mod. Im telling ya mods make this community, it never seen such dedicated modders before. They are beyond excellent. And lemme tell ya, when u have been alone in the atlantic or med while on war patrol, i cant describe the feeling when u see a little help in the form of stukas or a convoy. I ran to in italian convoy heading to tripoli a few patrols back and they escorted me thru the most dangerous parts of the mediteranean, but not without a few attacks from some British planes that wanted to stop ROmmels supplies!

[Salvadoreno]

Originally Posted by vois2

Antonin --

I think you'll find a large mix of those who love both history and gaming. It's hard to play this game and not become interested or intrigued by the methods and facts of the real U-boat war.

This game is a great deal at now less than US$20. If you want to avoid the StarForce issue, just order the game from the online distributor. The online downloadable version does not include the drivers from StarForce which affect the operation and interactivity with the CD/DVD drive -- for obvious reasons. (It includes three, but not the critical fourth, Starforce driver.)

The real secret to this game is the many tens of thousands of hours that the modder community has put into making it a much better game. The stock game as delivered is a great place to start learning how to play SH3. And then once you have a good feel for the game, patiently ask around for the unified mods. With a unified mod, you'll play a MUCH more interesting game ... more beautiful, exciting, and charging than the stock game by a mile.

Keep in mind that the sort of investment the mod community has made into this game is ongoing for more than one year. This is evidence that the game just keeps on providing new ways to play.

As an example ... want to know WHICH ACTUAL REAL HISTORICAL CONVOYS WERE AT SEA IN THE CORRECT OCEAN LOCATION ON A GIVEN DATE? jasonb885's convoy mod accounts this. You'll be hunting the real thing on the real date and location. Talk about stepping back in time.

Or ... would you like to aim a torpedo at the ship? ... or WOULD YOU LIKE TO DO MUCH MORE DAMAGE BY TAKING AIM AT THE SHIP'S ENGINE ROOM ON THE AFT SIDE OF THE FORTIFIED BULKING? You can do it, thanks to mods that show you where the engine room is located on the ship's blueprint.

And maybe ... you'd like to sail the Mediterranean as a lone German U-boat. Or how about SNEAKING DISGUISED AROUND THE MED HIDDEN AMONGST A LARGE AXIS CONVOY TO PROTECT YOU UNTIL YOU CLOSE IN ON A BIG BRITISH NAVAL BASE FOR YOUR DANGEROUS TARGET? Let's say the naval air protection at the British base detects the convoy's presence. Imagine a huge naval and naval air battle happening all around you, dozens of planes from both sides in the sky, a horizon lit with big guns firing and crippled warplanes crashing into the ocean (or into ships as they go down).

It happens, thanks to the mods.

HaH yes i have seriously become a u-boat fanatic after playing this game. Its great, and my u-boat knowledge came in handy at school today when i student brought up Das Boot and i knew what commander they represented, what u-baot it was historically, and other crap that made me look smart. hah! take that freind who didnt think my knowledge would come useful!

And as the scenario he described about following a freindly convoy in the Mediteranean. It happens! It happeend to me using the NYGM tonnage war mod. Im telling ya mods make this community, it never seen such dedicated modders before. They are beyond excellent. And lemme tell ya, when u have been alone in the atlantic or med while on war patrol, i cant describe the feeling when u see a little help in the form of stukas or a convoy. I ran to in italian convoy heading to tripoli a few patrols back and they escorted me thru the most dangerous parts of the mediteranean, but not without a few attacks from some British planes that wanted to stop ROmmels supplies!

[thyro]

Originally Posted by Antonin

To those of you who have SH3, why do you play? Is it just another game? An historical tool? A way to escape your RL and 'put to sea' for an evening of adventure, away from the wife and kids?

There aren't many other Sub Sims around with so good graphics. In this matter SH3 (is until now) unique.

As "historical tool" SH3 leaves much to desire... It contails simple game mechanics empty empty like its sea.

Fortunatly some Mods add some reality. However they cannot overwrite the game mechanic mistakes. So reality in SH3 is double edge sword and cannot be achieved.

As gamer I woudn't mind to have something graphically similar to SH3 which could replicate for example "cold war" subs geration. pos-cold war or even (not explored yet) subs pre-WW1.

As I said SH3 is unique but that also doesn't mean that I'm totally fanatic for it... just because its just a game which lacks a bit of realism in many aspects.

Linking history to a game... Well that would be a greate achivement if one day I see a game that gives that environment. Some SH3 mods try to give some environment however the undeground game mechanics does not allow to deviate from the basic/tedious missions (go from A to B stay there 24h and return).

Originally Posted by Antonin

Are you primarily a gamer or an historian? I'm not saying either is more 'legitimate' than the other, I'm just curious to know. Before I read the comments on Amazon it never occurred to me that a non-historian would be interested in a U-boat sim.

I'm a gamer like everyone else that play games or sim games.

Historian just a bit to bring some "virtual" reality into it.

"Why buy and why not..."

Sh3 is graphically unique and there are Mods available which bring some reality. But as I said all of them are limited to game mechanics.

SH3 could be considered CFS of subs and gives a bit more than MS flight sim.

However since I'm a gamer where my preferences go from shut-them-up (BF2), stragegy and ending up in sims games... SH3 was a nice purchase, which I have not regret to have it.... simply because is unique.

I really hope that future sea sims games bring some inovations at game play but also on graphics...

Destroyer command - I miss this one with SH3 graphics!
Enigma - Simply excellent sea sim but with out-date graphics
SHX - why not to have SH* that also includes ships in the sampe package (like enigma)....

I don't really consider myself a gamer at all. I like the equipment. I play a 3-D airwar game with friends; we play with model airplanes on stands in a local hobby shop. Why? Because it lets me imagine being a pilot in WWI, WWII, Korea, Viet Nam and later, and lets me talk to my friends while I try to kill them.

I've been working for years on my own WWI naval game, simply because I like the period and I like pushing model ships around the table.

So I play SHIII because it lets me imagine being a WWII submarine captain. I say 'submarine' rather than 'u-boat' because I'm fascinated by them all, and am looking forward to SHIV. Even when it's out, though, I'll still drive my u-boats.

[letterboy1]

For those at the Amazon.com review section who complained about SH3 being boring, it should be remembered that you don't have to play the campaign all the time (or at all). You can play the included single missions or set up a quick mission for those times when you want the action to start right away. That is why SH3 has these features in the first place. In fact many sims have quick mission builders included, even the more hard core ones like Falcon 4. SH3 can be as hardcore or as arcade-like as you want it to be when you want it to be. What more can one want from a sub sim out of the box?

[Khayman]

I've always been fascinated by dieslel/electric subs - nuclear power seems so boring to me. I love knowing I have to surface to recharge batteries, to brave aircarft or patrol craft while doing so. Plus I've always simply loved the look of U-boats. Sometimes I switch to external cam and just spend a few minutes watching my boat plowing through the sea, or sit on the bridge listening to the sea, watch a sunrise and listening to Lili Marleen.

I find the game amazing. Even though I can complain about details in it, it's incredibly immersive and a work of genius. Sure you get boring bits, but the action more than makes up for it.

[Phylacista]

Sometimes nothing happens for a long time, but this makes hitting a convoy even more exciting! Even an action movie must have slow scenes...

You wait and wait and wait - and then you must make the right decisions or your waiting is for naught.

More time consuming than a 1st person shooter but more rewarding too!

This game got me to read something about WWII Uboats. Now I like to play real captains on their original boat and see how I fare compared to them.
Try Wolves at War if you like this too - it was too time consmuming for me - there you will see your flotilla coming to life

[spork542]

I find it to be a way to... ahem... experience history and also escape from real life. I agree with you, if someone thinks of the game as "just another shooting game" they are missing the point. It's a simulation and should not be rated like a game like Half Life 2 would be rated. Although, Starforce could very well ruin your system, but it didn't ruin mine. I guess thats the only thing I REALLY dislike about the game. If I were in complete control, harming a game's users to make pirating difficult would be punishable by death. Think that's enough punishment?


Edit: I am somewhat in between a gamer and a historian. I like both sims and regular shooter games.