Multi-player "idiosyncrasies"

Palindromeria · 04-30-06, 11:58 AM

Had a coupla strange things happen in multi that i thouhgt i should share.
For the most part, I consider them to be the kind of things that are simply a part of internet gameplay.

in one case my mk 48 locked on to a russian torpedo, hit it,and "sank it" !
it showed up as a dead platform on my map for a few minutes and as a kill on my scoreboard. verified in replay. no idea what happened - but in general i initially expected acoustic torps to lock on to other torps alot more anyway. have not been able to reproduce said occurrence.

next torp oddity - fired a klub at a "player1" who was also under attack from "player 2". my torp landed very close to my tma and was clearly tracking sumthing but i heard an explosion - saw dead sub on my map realizing player 2 had sunk player 1, i went back to sonar station to check on another contact. no more than 10 seconds later i heard another explosion on "master2" flipped to map screen saw my torp was gone and patted myself on the back for at least having placed my missile "spot on" (assumed i hit cm) despite another player geting kill. heres the thing, somehow, on my results screen at least , it showed ME as having sunk player 1. thankfully i saw the dead platform b4 my torp exploded knew dang well this another players kill and it was not a stat match of any kind. lotsa frikkin argument potential in that rarity. in replay my torp clearly hit the already dead sub . very rare for torp to hit a dead platform in dw - they seem to be progged to suddenly go magical and pass thru.
again, no idea what happened. will not bother trying to reproduce said occurrence.

next "oddity" turned out to be nothing at all. a player was complaining heavily that sumthing funny was goin on and he was takin names and numbers gonna put the replay under a microscope and send it to all his buddies and he was gonna expose this to the WORLD by gum ! this all because his towed array was washing out "too soon" in his opinion. after putting everyone VERY ill at ease and kinda making them answer to his "find the cheater" detective crap for some 30 min during the game, said knucklehead suddenly realized he had been looking at his hull array the entire time - o gee OOPS .
yeah i got an oops for ya right here buddyboy.

last oddity is real and unfortunately not conjecture.
unnamed player has been hosting mission that i presume he is writing. having played 2 or 3 of these incoming missions and seeing that several people calmly and PRIVATELY concurred (as did i) that "sumthing funny WAS goin on" the host and/or his teammate seemed to sink other players ridiculously quickly. so someone decided to open the mission and have a look. i then opened it in the editor as well to simply confirm what another player was telling me. turned out there was a number of contact triggers with attack scripts written in for the sub the host had chosen and for whomever ended up being his fortuitous but unwitting accomplice sub. basically the instant the host/unwitting teammate got a specific contact on sonar there sub auto fired missile torps sinking the contact more or less immediately.

mets game starts soon

L8R

Molon Labe · 04-30-06, 09:33 PM

DW occasionally messes up the credit given on the Status screen in situations where two weapons were locked on a target, credit is sometimes removed for the first player and given to the second.

I cannot explain the other anomalies.

As for the map with the contact triggers, maybe you need to restrict your games to maps distributed on subguru or CADC. Or we need to start a blacklist, because that is seriously not cool.

Bellman · 04-30-06, 11:18 PM

Well I'd like to add my take.
First its very bad form to carp during a game about cheating and I doubt I'd dive again with anyone who did.

Secondly, more importantly, Pal is correct to draw our attention to the fact that there are hosts out there
on Gamespy putting up some very dubious scenarios.

My judgement is that there are three (at least) cheating procedures:-
(1) Scripts setting traps etc ''Something funny going on !!''
(2) Host plus accomplice/s set up a patsy. Egs. FFG static behind hilly island plus 2 helis and false ally sub.
(3) The Hosts scenario makes no fist at randomness and the starting positions are known and shared with accomplices.

One also suspects, although not cheating per se, that some hosts are field testing and developing scenarios.
In all cases the experience for those joining such games the pleasure is curtailed.

The evidence is there with the alarmingly increasingly frequency of hosts prematurely terminating games,
leaving you Replayless and without any evidence. If open play deteriorates further players will insulate
themselves into Fleets and tight cabals of 'known and trusted' sporting players.

Perhaps this will be a just reward as the 'benders' will be left only with a diet of newbies or playing by
(nearly said with) themselves. Infantile behaviour !

SKeeM · 05-01-06, 02:45 AM

I find this all real disturbing. 1 of the reasons that I moved closer to DW and away from games like BF2 was the level of intelect among the players. As we all know all games can be hacked one way or another, or exploited. But in the past 14 months that I have played DW I have come to a point of unpresident respect for the players of this game. Never would I have thought that any player of this game would cheat at all. It takes so much time to learn this game and the real world tactics you need to imploy to be successfull in this game. Sometimes you do all the rite things and still lose. Just because the other guy did his job better. But to lose because the other guy cheated? Thats just BS! These guys need to be weeded out.

HM.Medico · 05-01-06, 03:02 AM

The first torpedo thing is kinda funny, I would think maybe a heat seeker might be able to hit the heat from its engines, and the acoustic makes sense as well, nice work none the less, prolly havn't been able to reporoduce it 'cos torps move fast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SKeeM

PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 5:45 pm Post subject:
I find this all real disturbing. 1 of the reasons that I moved closer to DW and away from games like BF2 was the level of intelect among the players. As we all know all games can be hacked one way or another, or exploited. But in the past 14 months that I have played DW I have come to a point of unpresident respect for the players of this game. Never would I have thought that any player of this game would cheat at all. It takes so much time to learn this game and the real world tactics you need to imploy to be successfull in this game. Sometimes you do all the rite things and still lose. Just because the other guy did his job better. But to lose because the other guy cheated? Thats just BS! These guys need to be weeded out.

I agree, this game is really hard to play and harder to play well. Many a time I've been sunk and gone "Nice shot" Many a time the favor has been returned. I dunno, This isn't like CS where people just click and kill, It does need tactics. Many a time I've been killed on this by the AI and thought "I really should've flanked em, GOTTERDAMUNG"

Ah well, we can't just jhope it all goes away, does VAC work on this like it does on the other steam games?

Palindromeria · 05-01-06, 04:37 PM

point is that ALOT of various weird stuff can happen that is just internet or game weirdness. (ex 1 and 2)

then theres the isolated incident thats real (ex 4)

the combined effect results in hysteria, false accusations and general stupidity (ex 3)

Wildcat · 05-01-06, 05:02 PM

the solution is to host your own game.

Fish · 05-01-06, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palindromeria

Had a coupla strange things happen in multi that i thouhgt i should share.
For the most part, I consider them to be the kind of things that are simply a part of internet gameplay.

in one case my mk 48 locked on to a russian torpedo, hit it,and "sank it" !
it showed up as a dead platform on my map for a few minutes and as a kill on my scoreboard. verified in replay. no idea what happened - but in general i initially expected acoustic torps to lock on to other torps alot more anyway. have not been able to reproduce said occurrence.

next torp oddity - fired a klub at a "player1" who was also under attack from "player 2". my torp landed very close to my tma and was clearly tracking sumthing but i heard an explosion - saw dead sub on my map realizing player 2 had sunk player 1, i went back to sonar station to check on another contact. no more than 10 seconds later i heard another explosion on "master2" flipped to map screen saw my torp was gone and patted myself on the back for at least having placed my missile "spot on" (assumed i hit cm) despite another player geting kill. heres the thing, somehow, on my results screen at least , it showed ME as having sunk player 1. thankfully i saw the dead platform b4 my torp exploded knew dang well this another players kill and it was not a stat match of any kind. lotsa frikkin argument potential in that rarity. in replay my torp clearly hit the already dead sub . very rare for torp to hit a dead platform in dw - they seem to be progged to suddenly go magical and pass thru.
again, no idea what happened. will not bother trying to reproduce said occurrence.

next "oddity" turned out to be nothing at all. a player was complaining heavily that sumthing funny was goin on and he was takin names and numbers gonna put the replay under a microscope and send it to all his buddies and he was gonna expose this to the WORLD by gum ! this all because his towed array was washing out "too soon" in his opinion. after putting everyone VERY ill at ease and kinda making them answer to his "find the cheater" detective crap for some 30 min during the game, said knucklehead suddenly realized he had been looking at his hull array the entire time - o gee OOPS .
yeah i got an oops for ya right here buddyboy.

last oddity is real and unfortunately not conjecture.
unnamed player has been hosting mission that i presume he is writing. having played 2 or 3 of these incoming missions and seeing that several people calmly and PRIVATELY concurred (as did i) that "sumthing funny WAS goin on" the host and/or his teammate seemed to sink other players ridiculously quickly. so someone decided to open the mission and have a look. i then opened it in the editor as well to simply confirm what another player was telling me. turned out there was a number of contact triggers with attack scripts written in for the sub the host had chosen and for whomever ended up being his fortuitous but unwitting accomplice sub. basically the instant the host/unwitting teammate got a specific contact on sonar there sub auto fired missile torps sinking the contact more or less immediately.

mets game starts soon

L8R

I like to see that map if possible? I'll pm my e-mail.

Fish · 05-01-06, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildcat

the solution is to host your own game.

Or use virtual fleet maps, they have a R&D section, and maps are tested.

Palindromeria · 05-01-06, 10:04 PM

with all due respect,
distributing this file to anyone upon request
would not be described as the epitome of wisdom.

LuftWolf · 05-01-06, 10:10 PM

Fish is the old man of the sea, you can trust him.

One of his hobbies is tracking down DW cheaters, and he has done it professionally for the SW's and now GNSF for at least a few years.

So I think it would be best to send him the file.

OKO, Fish, Bellman, OneShot, Molon Labe, Bill Nichols, MaHuJa, TLAM, SeaQueen, Driftwood, Xabbarus, and a few others... all of these people are good as gold (and a few of them are Beta testers as well).

HM.Medico · 05-01-06, 10:47 PM

And me, you can always trust me

Bellman · 05-02-06, 01:40 AM

Fish is the Bankers Banker and the Wizards Wizard

Palindromeria · 05-02-06, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HM.Medico

And me, you can always trust me

point made.

Palindromeria · 05-05-06, 10:11 AM

FWIW, i personally havent seen the gamespy host of the "attack script" since having pointed it out.

i think i my point here has been slightly misconveyed.

im sure we could post a few examples of cheaters, but we can prolly post hundreds of NORMAL "oddities", misunderstandings, and false accusations.

some are actually incredibly basic things ....

one gamespy player thought i did sumthing funny cuz i killed him this way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linton

.One noisy shot to get the target moving,having offset it first,followed by a passive shot about when the first torp goes active.They never hear the second one coming because they are always running fast from the first!

nice to know that im not the only one who like to fire a passive torp now and then

---

In another game i was totally confused about how i got sunk 15 minutes in by a seawolf without ever hearing said sub even though i was kilo making a whopping 2 kts.

Turned out that at game start (both started heading 0 ), by chance , enemy player started in my baffles and headed easterly, while i slowly turned toward 270, thus keeping keepeng him perfectly in my deaf spot & explaining why i did not hear his sub, and why i heard his torpedoes way way way too late. if i had i simply turned the OTHER way .....

in the end 1 person thought ill of me,
i thought ill of someone else,
we were both WRONG.

04-30-06, 11:58 AM	#1
Palindromeria Planesman Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Brooklyn NY Posts: 199 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Multi-player "idiosyncrasies" Had a coupla strange things happen in multi that i thouhgt i should share. For the most part, I consider them to be the kind of things that are simply a part of internet gameplay. in one case my mk 48 locked on to a russian torpedo, hit it,and "sank it" ! it showed up as a dead platform on my map for a few minutes and as a kill on my scoreboard. verified in replay. no idea what happened - but in general i initially expected acoustic torps to lock on to other torps alot more anyway. have not been able to reproduce said occurrence. next torp oddity - fired a klub at a "player1" who was also under attack from "player 2". my torp landed very close to my tma and was clearly tracking sumthing but i heard an explosion - saw dead sub on my map realizing player 2 had sunk player 1, i went back to sonar station to check on another contact. no more than 10 seconds later i heard another explosion on "master2" flipped to map screen saw my torp was gone and patted myself on the back for at least having placed my missile "spot on" (assumed i hit cm) despite another player geting kill. heres the thing, somehow, on my results screen at least , it showed ME as having sunk player 1. thankfully i saw the dead platform b4 my torp exploded knew dang well this another players kill and it was not a stat match of any kind. lotsa frikkin argument potential in that rarity. in replay my torp clearly hit the already dead sub . very rare for torp to hit a dead platform in dw - they seem to be progged to suddenly go magical and pass thru. again, no idea what happened. will not bother trying to reproduce said occurrence. next "oddity" turned out to be nothing at all. a player was complaining heavily that sumthing funny was goin on and he was takin names and numbers gonna put the replay under a microscope and send it to all his buddies and he was gonna expose this to the WORLD by gum ! this all because his towed array was washing out "too soon" in his opinion. after putting everyone VERY ill at ease and kinda making them answer to his "find the cheater" detective crap for some 30 min during the game, said knucklehead suddenly realized he had been looking at his hull array the entire time - o gee OOPS . yeah i got an oops for ya right here buddyboy. last oddity is real and unfortunately not conjecture. unnamed player has been hosting mission that i presume he is writing. having played 2 or 3 of these incoming missions and seeing that several people calmly and PRIVATELY concurred (as did i) that "sumthing funny WAS goin on" the host and/or his teammate seemed to sink other players ridiculously quickly. so someone decided to open the mission and have a look. i then opened it in the editor as well to simply confirm what another player was telling me. turned out there was a number of contact triggers with attack scripts written in for the sub the host had chosen and for whomever ended up being his fortuitous but unwitting accomplice sub. basically the instant the host/unwitting teammate got a specific contact on sonar there sub auto fired missile torps sinking the contact more or less immediately. mets game starts soon L8R

04-30-06, 09:33 PM	#2
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	DW occasionally messes up the credit given on the Status screen in situations where two weapons were locked on a target, credit is sometimes removed for the first player and given to the second. I cannot explain the other anomalies. As for the map with the contact triggers, maybe you need to restrict your games to maps distributed on subguru or CADC. Or we need to start a blacklist, because that is seriously not cool. __________________

04-30-06, 11:18 PM	#3
Bellman Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,945 Downloads: 220 Uploads: 0	Well I'd like to add my take. First its very bad form to carp during a game about cheating and I doubt I'd dive again with anyone who did. Secondly, more importantly, Pal is correct to draw our attention to the fact that there are hosts out there on Gamespy putting up some very dubious scenarios. My judgement is that there are three (at least) cheating procedures:- (1) Scripts setting traps etc ''Something funny going on !!'' (2) Host plus accomplice/s set up a patsy. Egs. FFG static behind hilly island plus 2 helis and false ally sub. (3) The Hosts scenario makes no fist at randomness and the starting positions are known and shared with accomplices. One also suspects, although not cheating per se, that some hosts are field testing and developing scenarios. In all cases the experience for those joining such games the pleasure is curtailed. The evidence is there with the alarmingly increasingly frequency of hosts prematurely terminating games, leaving you Replayless and without any evidence. If open play deteriorates further players will insulate themselves into Fleets and tight cabals of 'known and trusted' sporting players. Perhaps this will be a just reward as the 'benders' will be left only with a diet of newbies or playing by (nearly said with) themselves. Infantile behaviour ! __________________ Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

05-01-06, 10:10 PM	#11
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Fish is the old man of the sea, you can trust him. One of his hobbies is tracking down DW cheaters, and he has done it professionally for the SW's and now GNSF for at least a few years. So I think it would be best to send him the file. OKO, Fish, Bellman, OneShot, Molon Labe, Bill Nichols, MaHuJa, TLAM, SeaQueen, Driftwood, Xabbarus, and a few others... all of these people are good as gold (and a few of them are Beta testers as well). __________________ LW

05-01-06, 10:47 PM	#12
HM.Medico Helmsman Join Date: May 2006 Location: 60 Knots off shore, In a VIID Posts: 107 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	And me, you can always trust me __________________ Creator of The Enigma Room (Assisted greatly by P_Funk) Tonnage Total -: 165 Thousand Tonnes (DDs: 7\|Countless merchants\|Elcos: 4\| Armed Trawlers: 2\| BBs 3) Punctuation is the difference between "I helped my Uncle, Jack, off a horse" and "i helped my uncle jack off a horse" USE GOOD GRAMMAR!

05-01-06, 02:45 AM	#4
SKeeM Sailor man Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bronx, NY Posts: 47 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I find this all real disturbing. 1 of the reasons that I moved closer to DW and away from games like BF2 was the level of intelect among the players. As we all know all games can be hacked one way or another, or exploited. But in the past 14 months that I have played DW I have come to a point of unpresident respect for the players of this game. Never would I have thought that any player of this game would cheat at all. It takes so much time to learn this game and the real world tactics you need to imploy to be successfull in this game. Sometimes you do all the rite things and still lose. Just because the other guy did his job better. But to lose because the other guy cheated? Thats just BS! These guys need to be weeded out.

05-01-06, 04:37 PM	#6
Palindromeria Planesman Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Brooklyn NY Posts: 199 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	point is that ALOT of various weird stuff can happen that is just internet or game weirdness. (ex 1 and 2) then theres the isolated incident thats real (ex 4) the combined effect results in hysteria, false accusations and general stupidity (ex 3)

05-01-06, 05:02 PM	#7
Wildcat Engineer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 215 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	the solution is to host your own game.

05-01-06, 10:04 PM	#10
Palindromeria Planesman Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Brooklyn NY Posts: 199 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	with all due respect, distributing this file to anyone upon request would not be described as the epitome of wisdom.

05-02-06, 01:40 AM	#13
Bellman Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,945 Downloads: 220 Uploads: 0	Fish is the Bankers Banker and the Wizards Wizard __________________ Liberty, Equality, Fraternity