Is a full dead stop possible?

Kirk · 03-27-06, 05:17 PM

I know this may sound funny but is there a way to come to a full dead stop? I have tried different ways but in either case you will still drift? Even if I turned off the waveriding feature.

GunnersMate · 03-28-06, 01:44 AM

Dead stop relative to what?

OKO · 03-28-06, 02:28 AM

just stop the engine and wait ... wait ... wait ... until inertia is killed.
If you are in a hurry, and don't have towed array extended, use back 1/3 to accelerate the process.

If you want to lay on the ground, wait until you slow down to 1 knts before touching the floor, or you will damage the ship.

Wim Libaers · 03-28-06, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirk

I know this may sound funny but is there a way to come to a full dead stop? I have tried different ways but in either case you will still drift? Even if I turned off the waveriding feature.

Did you also turn off currents? Even then, wind could still be a problem.

Dr.Sid · 03-29-06, 05:10 AM

Winds and currents does not work a bit corretly, you should have turned them off.

LuftWolf · 03-29-06, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

Winds and currents does not work a bit corretly, you should have turned them off.

Do you mind expanding on this?

Mau · 03-29-06, 02:11 PM

Yes,
I am llike Luftwolf here.
Can you explain more about the wind and the current?
I know the chaffs and flares seems to not going in the proper direction of the wind (didn't try it with th 1.03)
However I hope and expect that the wind will work properly if I do an approach in a port!!

If not than why not?

Bill Nichols · 03-29-06, 04:12 PM

Curiously, in a scenario I was building recently, I had a sub and surface ship docket in port. Currents and wind were zero, by design. The sub began to drift, but the surface ship did not. Eventually, the sub drifted into the surface ship and all hell broke out

Dr.Sid · 03-30-06, 03:49 AM

Both currents and winds works same. They add specific vector to platform speed. Currents for subs and surfaces, winds for surfaces and aircrafts. So far so good.
Major problem with currents is that all critical speeds (wires, launches, masts, cavintation) ale considered against ground. So if there is 2 kts current, and your mast breaks at 10 kts, you order 10 kts (which means water speed) and at 9kts the mast will break. It's because you already have 11 kts against ground (depends also if you go against the current or with it).
All critical speeds should be measured against the medium, ie. water.
It would be grat do design mission with strong tidal current, which could be used to get quietly in a bay (or out), but with this bug you can cavitate even at 'all stop' bell, or be unable to popout any mast, except at high speed heading against the current.
Winds are not such big problem, because there is not so many speed limits. For aircrafts winds are ok (I don't see any trouble). But for surfaces (OHP) there is problem.
The wind works absolutely same as current. If there is 5 kts wind, it will add 5kts vector of speed to speed of the platform. 5kts wind will move OHP at full stop at 5kts speed. OHP will have to ortder 5kts to negate the wind. And 5kts wind is weak wind. With stronger winds, OHP can do just nothing and 'sail' with the wind.
In reality, wind has much lower effect on the surface ships. The effect also depends on aerodynamics, mainly on area exposed to the wind. If you turn ship against wind, there is much less effect than if you turn ship so wind strikes it from the side. Non of this is simulated in DW.
I think (I'm not sure) that the wind trouble is new in 1.03 .. I did not notice it before. The current trouble is there since 1.0.

Mau · 03-30-06, 05:57 AM

Yes,

In reality wind needs to be 15-20 kts to have the effect of a 1 kt current. (let say 20 kts).

A ship will tend to go abeam of the wind (but that I can live without)

Would it be possible to change wind and current with this ratio?

And for Bill, strange that the sub moved and the OHP didn't.
Was that with Wind and current disable or simply with a speed of 0.

Does the sub have some kind of bubule around them that makes them moving all the time (physics or sailing model of the subs in the game??)

Kirk · 04-02-06, 08:04 PM

Hi all. Yeah. I sure can not make my sub come to a full stop on the surface or submerged. I never even tried to dock my sub anywhere. Oh. My currants, wind and waveriding are all turned off and yes I do drift. Got me?

NefariousKoel · 04-07-06, 05:47 PM

Amazing...

I remember people complaining about not drifting at dead stop in Sub Command.

I'd really hate to be a game developer - you just can't win.

LuftWolf · 04-08-06, 12:11 AM

Bingo.

Nexus7 · 04-08-06, 02:27 PM

Yes somehow amusing :rotfl:

But if I understood it well the vectorial calculations lack of consistency somewhere... and after all, we're just at the third patch (compared with 8(?) of the simpler SC). That doesn't make sense... we simply must complain

03-27-06, 05:17 PM	#1
Kirk Helmsman Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 102 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Is a full dead stop possible? I know this may sound funny but is there a way to come to a full dead stop? I have tried different ways but in either case you will still drift? Even if I turned off the waveriding feature. __________________ -Kirk

03-28-06, 01:44 AM	#2
GunnersMate Lieutenant Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USS Sea Tiger Posts: 251 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Dead stop relative to what? __________________ \"Sir they just fired an Exocet at us!\" \"Very well, Bosn pipe Sweepers\" I\'m having trouble with the radar, sir. What\'s wrong with it? I\'ve lost the bleeps, I\'ve lost the sweeps, and I\'ve lost the creeps.

03-29-06, 04:12 PM	#8
Bill Nichols Master of Defense Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 1,502 Downloads: 125 Uploads: 0	Curiously, in a scenario I was building recently, I had a sub and surface ship docket in port. Currents and wind were zero, by design. The sub began to drift, but the surface ship did not. Eventually, the sub drifted into the surface ship and all hell broke out __________________ My Dangerous Waters website:

04-02-06, 08:04 PM	#11
Kirk Helmsman Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 102 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Looks like I started something here Hi all. Yeah. I sure can not make my sub come to a full stop on the surface or submerged. I never even tried to dock my sub anywhere. Oh. My currants, wind and waveriding are all turned off and yes I do drift. Got me? __________________ -Kirk

04-07-06, 05:47 PM	#12
NefariousKoel Ace of the Deep Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: No-good Missouri scum Posts: 1,223 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Amazing... I remember people complaining about not drifting at dead stop in Sub Command. I'd really hate to be a game developer - you just can't win. __________________ "When Gary told me he had found Jesus, I thought, Yahoo! We're rich! But it turned out to be something different." - Jack Handey

03-28-06, 02:28 AM	#3
OKO Commander Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Solar system, mainly on earth Posts: 476 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	just stop the engine and wait ... wait ... wait ... until inertia is killed. If you are in a hurry, and don't have towed array extended, use back 1/3 to accelerate the process. If you want to lay on the ground, wait until you slow down to 1 knts before touching the floor, or you will damage the ship.

03-29-06, 05:10 AM	#5
Dr.Sid The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Winds and currents does not work a bit corretly, you should have turned them off.

03-29-06, 02:11 PM	#7
Mau Sonar Guy Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 382 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Yes, I am llike Luftwolf here. Can you explain more about the wind and the current? I know the chaffs and flares seems to not going in the proper direction of the wind (didn't try it with th 1.03) However I hope and expect that the wind will work properly if I do an approach in a port!! If not than why not?

03-30-06, 03:49 AM	#9
Dr.Sid The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Both currents and winds works same. They add specific vector to platform speed. Currents for subs and surfaces, winds for surfaces and aircrafts. So far so good. Major problem with currents is that all critical speeds (wires, launches, masts, cavintation) ale considered against ground. So if there is 2 kts current, and your mast breaks at 10 kts, you order 10 kts (which means water speed) and at 9kts the mast will break. It's because you already have 11 kts against ground (depends also if you go against the current or with it). All critical speeds should be measured against the medium, ie. water. It would be grat do design mission with strong tidal current, which could be used to get quietly in a bay (or out), but with this bug you can cavitate even at 'all stop' bell, or be unable to popout any mast, except at high speed heading against the current. Winds are not such big problem, because there is not so many speed limits. For aircrafts winds are ok (I don't see any trouble). But for surfaces (OHP) there is problem. The wind works absolutely same as current. If there is 5 kts wind, it will add 5kts vector of speed to speed of the platform. 5kts wind will move OHP at full stop at 5kts speed. OHP will have to ortder 5kts to negate the wind. And 5kts wind is weak wind. With stronger winds, OHP can do just nothing and 'sail' with the wind. In reality, wind has much lower effect on the surface ships. The effect also depends on aerodynamics, mainly on area exposed to the wind. If you turn ship against wind, there is much less effect than if you turn ship so wind strikes it from the side. Non of this is simulated in DW. I think (I'm not sure) that the wind trouble is new in 1.03 .. I did not notice it before. The current trouble is there since 1.0.

03-30-06, 05:57 AM	#10
Mau Sonar Guy Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 382 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Yes, In reality wind needs to be 15-20 kts to have the effect of a 1 kt current. (let say 20 kts). A ship will tend to go abeam of the wind (but that I can live without) Would it be possible to change wind and current with this ratio? And for Bill, strange that the sub moved and the OHP didn't. Was that with Wind and current disable or simply with a speed of 0. Does the sub have some kind of bubule around them that makes them moving all the time (physics or sailing model of the subs in the game??)

04-08-06, 12:11 AM	#13
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Bingo. __________________ LW

04-08-06, 02:27 PM	#14
Nexus7 Commander Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Switzerland Posts: 469 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Yes somehow amusing :rotfl: But if I understood it well the vectorial calculations lack of consistency somewhere... and after all, we're just at the third patch (compared with 8(?) of the simpler SC). That doesn't make sense... we simply must complain __________________ If you are going through hell... keep going (Winston Churchill)