EDIT: Deck gun accuracy Q (RUB related, I think)

[Maui]

EDIT: Because I am a retard, please substitute the word "deck" for "flak" when reading this post.

Not long ago I modded for the first time with Rub 1.45 + NYGM Damage Mod.

If I remember correctly it is RUB that added more inaccuracy in the flak gun as part of the effort to tame it. But for me, NYGM's methods of adjusting the damage plus using slower reload times than stock are enough to make me feel okay about the realism. The added inaccuracy is starting to bug me and I'd rather do without. Approx 2 out of 3 shots are sailing on me. That seems like too much.

Is there a way to roll back just the accuracy part? Or is there something I don't know about using the flak gun with RUB that helps keep accuracy up?

Thanks.

[Der Teddy Bar]

Actually it is the NYGM Aircraft Damage Mod, part of the NYGM Tonnage War Mod that addresses the AA Laser Guided System.

NYGM Tonnage War Released 06/03/06
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=49428

From the original thread of the NYGM Aircraft Damage Mod
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=48705

I cannot stress enough, that your AI AA crew are not useless, but, they no longer have a Laser Guided Aiming System.

The AA gun no longer has a Laser Guided Aiming System. You AI AA gunners are now not going to be able to ‘nail an aircraft to the wall’ from over 2000 metres.




Aircraft will now be something to be feared and respected. They are not impossible, and most planes can be brought down with 1 and 2 bullets for the bombers. However, 95% of time this will not happen. The planes are not impossible. They are now both harder too hit as well as armoured.

The ability for a bullet to pierce the armour is determined by the bullet’s HP or if the bullet’s HP value alone is not enough it still may still get through when the bullet’s HP in conjunction with random Armour Piercing modifier give it enough HP’s. However, the Min/Max HP range for the bullet is large which will result in some bullets never getting through even with the modifiers.

The ability for a bullet to cause damage is Random.

In light of the AI’s ability to drop bombs very accurately I have reduced the bomb’s maximum blast area, while at the same time increasing the minimum range. That is, where as a 100kg bomb had a HP of 40 Min & 100 Max, it is now 100 for both Min & Max and where the range was 1 metre Min & 20 Metres Max it is now 5 metres Min & 10 metres Max.

It is I feel, and I hope that after playing, that you will agree, a good compromise when considering the many aspects of game play, including that of how the AI works. I will ask before dishing the bomb changes to give it a fair chance, then feel free to have your say.

Originally Posted by Berry

Here's the problem: the AI can literally hit a gnat's whisker at a range of 2 miles. That means that (except for the first couple of rounds) every bullet fired from the time the AI open up until they stop (i.e. while the aircraft is in range) will hit the aircraft. It is impossible (as far as we know) to make the AI less accurate.

In RUb we tried making the aircraft armour plated to the maximum to offset this (this was the first thing we tried), but adding armour only goes so far, and after a while it starts to look ridiculous when you have aircraft taking thousands of FlAK hits without effect.

We also decreased the effectiveness of FlAK shells (this was the second thing we tried), but FlAK shells can only be made a little bit less effective otherwise players will have problems when using FlAK guns against other targets - PT boats etc.

The nerfs that we used up to this point began to affect the way the game looked because what was needed was a HUGE reduction in firepower to offset the AI's superhuman accuracy. The only alternative left to us was to reduce the range at which AI FlAK guns can fire. Even after doing all this, the FlAK guns are still uber.

It is still very possible to shoot down many more planes than was historically possible.

In WWII only 120 aircraft were shot down for the entire war and most of those were from 1942 onwards.

Between 1939 & 1943 only 10 aircraft were shot down...
1939 - 2 - U-30 2x Blackburn Skua NOTE: one was 'shot' down by it's own bomb bouncing off the water and exploding in the air.
1940 - 0
1941 - 1 - U-131 1 x Martlet
1942 - 7 - U-73 1 x Hudson, U-256 1 x Whitley, U-259 1 x Hudson, U-505 1 x Hudson, U-561 1 x Liberator, U-565 1 x Hudson, U-606 Catalina,

Please check out the u-boat.net's page on aircraft shot down http://uboat.net/history/aircraft_losses.htm.


As far as I can tell, the most aircraft shot down by one u-boat is an astounding number of 4!

2 Sep, 1942
(British Whitley aircraft, Squadron 77/H)

11 Mar, 1944
(Canadian Wellington aircraft, Squadron 407/H)
The aircraft seems to have crashed on its own during preparations for the attack run.

19 Mar, 1944
(British Liberator aircraft, Squadron 224/F)
The aircraft smashed into the sea 500m away from the boat and exploded.

7 Jun, 1944
(British Liberator aircraft, Squadron 224/M)


Please note that the AI AA ranges have been changed to...
Close 1000
Medium 2000
Long 3000

I would recomend at the start of a patrol you you immendiatly set the AA to Fire at will, set the range to medium & fire at incomming aircraft only.

Ammunition could now be a possible issue.

Even though you are very unlikely to attain many hits I have set the maximum range at 3000 metres. This is for the times that you are desperate to keep the plane away from you.

I would, as mentioned above, recomend using the medium setting of 2000 metres.

[Maui]

Thanks, Teddy, but does there happen to be one specific file I could rollback the flak gun accuracy without affecting the other damage changes?

Also, is it really the same logic that controls the AI's accuracy that causes my manually aimed shots to sail on me?

[Maui]

Man, I'm a retard. Techinically, I know the flak gun is for aircraft and the deck gun is for ships, but for some reason I my head I have always used flak gun for both.l

I mean *Deck gun*

So, back to the original Q. I have been trying to very carefuly place deck gun shots just below the water line as you describe in your tutorial, but at least 2 out of 3 shots sail completely over the ship since I modded. Is there anything I can do about this?

[Der Teddy Bar]

Originally Posted by Maui

Thanks, Teddy, but does there happen to be one specific file I could rollback the flak gun accuracy without affecting the other damage changes?

Also, is it really the same logic that controls the AI's accuracy that causes my manually aimed shots to sail on me?

You ability to adjust aim will be effected as it is for the AI. But not the accuracy. That is, if on a perfect day, you have a plane coming in on the level your accuracy is not effected.

I changed the ‘speedElevation’

For the AA 90 to 25
For the deck gun 10 to 1.25

When I looked at the issue of the Laser Guided Aiming System what caught my eye was when the AA nailed it and when the AA did not.

What I noticed was that the AA from left to right and right to left, would often trail the plane. But when ever the plane was coming head on, I am not talking about in simple level flight, but when the plane was diving from and/or climbing to a great height at speed and angle, speeding over head and other various situations where you would not expect a gunner to be able to maintain a bead on the aircraft even without being on a rocking and rolling u-boat in 10 knot winds.

So with this in mind, I deduced that the ‘speedElevation’ needed to be slowed down so that the AA could not adjusting the aim up and down with a superman ability.

And it works a treat. The AA can still hit the aircraft, as they should be able to, but when a plane changes height quickly the AA cannot instantly adjust. Nor can they instantly adjust the aim when the weather gets worse. So as the weather gets worse, so does the ability of the AA.

The same principle works for the deck gun. The deck gun should be able to gently adjust the aim in relation to the rocking of the boat, but only to a small degree. And that is what we have with the deck gun. When you look at it you will notice that there are a lot of instances where it is not maintaining a precise level and that the gun is rocking with the boat.

[Der Teddy Bar]

Originally Posted by Maui

Man, I'm a retard. Techinically, I know the flak gun is for aircraft and the deck gun is for ships, but for some reason I my head I have always used flak gun for both.l

I mean *Deck gun*

So, back to the original Q. I have been trying to very carefuly place deck gun shots just below the water line as you describe in your tutorial, but at least 2 out of 3 shots sail completely over the ship since I modded. Is there anything I can do about this?

Just relax and take your time. Watch the roll of the boat, as a real u-boat crew had too

Else, the changes are as per the post above.

[Maui]

Awesome, thanks for the info Teddy.

I'll go ahead and play with that value for the *deck gun* (now that I have my vocabulary straightened out), but I haven't been able to really notice much of a correlation with my shot and the postion of the boat. Basically, it seems that 1 out of 3 shots will hit very close to where I aimed it, but the other 2 will go **way** high. But maybe it really was because of my boat's position on a wave.

But also, I notice that since modding my shots will go well left or right of where I'm aiming. It seems that for successive shots, the distance left or right that the shots go is pretty consistent, but it is not consistent between deck gun "sessions". That is, while shelling one ship, I may have to aim a shiplength to the left of where I want to shoot, but the next ship I will have to aim half a shiplength ahead. I kinda figured this was related to whatever was causing my shots to sail high 2/3 times.

But as I type this I'm thinking maybe this isn't working how it is supposed to at all. Does my description sound like what should be happening?