Preferred Sonobuoy?

hachiman · 02-18-06, 07:33 AM

What your preferred Sonobuoy type ?
Do you just use the one all the time or different ones for different scenarios?

Thanx

Bort · 02-18-06, 10:56 AM

VLAD for searching, DICASS for pinning, never use DIFAR. :|\

OneShot · 02-18-06, 01:15 PM

With the new 1.03 most depths for the buoys are changed ... unlike before you actually need to take a look at the water depths now to pick the right buoy ... using a VLAD Shallow in less then 600ft of water will only allow you to listen to the rumblings in the mud ...

Sub Sailor · 02-18-06, 02:29 PM

Here there some place I can go to see what the new depths are?

Thanks,

Ron Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret)

Tarrasque · 02-18-06, 03:32 PM

The new depths can be found in the manual errata, and have also been updated in the USNI database.

However, for your convenience:
DiCASS Shallow = 90 ft
DiCASS Deep = 800 ft
DiFAR Shallow = 90 ft
DiFAR Deep = 400 ft
VLAD Shallow = 600 ft
VLAD Deep = 1200 ft

Hobnail · 02-18-06, 05:27 PM

Considering the new layer modeling my new favourite buoy is the BT

Dr.Sid · 02-20-06, 03:10 AM

Hell why ? SInce DIFFAR has really awfull range, you can cover just no area with OHP helos (and you still can't choose buoy load). If you have 200ft of water, you have just 4 diffar shalow and 4 diccas shallow. Well twice that if you have 2 helos. What can you do with that ?

goldorak · 02-20-06, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

Hell why ? SInce DIFFAR has really awfull range, you can cover just no area with OHP helos (and you still can't choose buoy load). If you have 200ft of water, you have just 4 diffar shalow and 4 diccas shallow. Well twice that if you have 2 helos. What can you do with that ?

Maybe do a teamwork with the frigate. ?
I'm no navy man, but I seriously doubt that in real life the helo goes on by itself hunting for a sub.

Dr.Sid · 02-20-06, 05:28 AM

No by itself .. of course .. but with 8 weak buoys you already have to know where the sub is. Which you usualy don't. And whole trick of helos is not to get FFG in torpedo range of the sub. With 4 VLADs you could really cover some area, because they have nice range.
Some scenarios for sure expect you to use all VLADs you can carry. I just don't get why VLAD shallow goes for 600ft !? What exactly is shalow on that ?
I would make all shalow-ones go to 90ft, all deep-ones to 800 ft.

Btw. how do I make helo to reload buoys ? They somehow don't want to do it .. or wait .. maybe they need just more time, right ?

goldorak · 02-20-06, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

No by itself .. of course .. but with 8 weak buoys you already have to know where the sub is. Which you usualy don't. And whole trick of helos is not to get FFG in torpedo range of the sub. With 4 VLADs you could really cover some area, because they have nice range.
Some scenarios for sure expect you to use all VLADs you can carry. I just don't get why VLAD shallow goes for 600ft !? What exactly is shalow on that ?
I would make all shalow-ones go to 90ft, all deep-ones to 800 ft.

Btw. how do I make helo to reload buoys ? They somehow don't want to do it .. or wait .. maybe they need just more time, right ?

Well having the same settings of deep and shallow for all the buoys is a big step backwards.
Right now you need to know the evironmental conditions of the operations area as to decide which buoys (and deep or shallow) to take.
It adds to the realism.
Before 1.03 one only took the vlad and dicass (for any type of mission) and the difars never entered the equation.

You can reload the helo, just go back to the frigate.

OneShot · 02-20-06, 06:38 AM

Dr.Sid ... take a look at FAS or GlobalSecurity.org or some other pages and research the differences of the buoys used in DW. You will notice that they have quite differing characteristics and uses. To stay with the VLAD ... before 1.03 there was no real modelling of the layer as well as uniform buoy depths which were not really consistent with what should be according to unclassified Real Life sources. Since VLADs had a slight advantage (not more then 1 nm ususally, mostly less) and otherwise same characteristics as DIFAR, the choice was simple.

Now with 1.03 we have a clearly modelled layer which is usually deeper then the old Deep buoys (400ft). After a lot of lobbying SCS finally agreed to bring some more realism into DW and fit the buoys to the new conditions and their real life counterparts (certainly not perfect, but close enough for gameplay purposes).

So what are the buoys for ? DIFAR are good for littoral waters and can go as deep as 400ft, VLADs are designed and used in open waters of usually 800ft and more (VLAD Shallow is now 600ft). DICASS retain both a very shallow (90ft) and get a slightly deeper depth then before to get below some of the layers. And not to forget the cable of the Hydrophone was extended to 2500ft (or was it 2000ft) and speed of deployment increased.

With these changes the Airborne plattforms are now capable to reach below the layers.

Bottom line, every buoy now has its strenghts and weaknesses and your loadout has to be careful selected before starting the mission. Yep that might suck in some cases for the FFG drivers with AI Helo, because they may not be able to use all of the buoys, but then hopefully sooner or later the ASTAC station will get a revamp...

Dr.Sid · 02-20-06, 08:39 AM

So diffar has only about 1 nm range ? Is it really that weak ? Please tell me how you detect sub in area 20nm x 20nm with that ? Even if you can select loadout it can be a trouble, but let's talk about FFG + helos, since most missions for FFG are exactly like this. And what more, usualy you start on the border of the are or even in the middle of the area, so you really don't have a time to do deploy nice SB field.
Some missions are just badly unbalanced. You are ordered to do impossible things.
Well don't get me wrong .. I enjoy even impossible missions

OneShot · 02-20-06, 08:43 AM

You got me wrong ... i meant a max of 1nm of less detection distance then the VLAD ... so if the VLAD can detect out to 7nm under certain conditions the DIFAR might detect at 6nm or 6.5nm under the same conditions ... The DIFAR certainly isn't limited to 1nm.

However you have to keep in mind that the accoustic conditions have a huge impact after 1.03. Now it really matters what time of day, month it is what type of bottom you have and how deep the water is (not to mention the preselected SSP by the Mission Designer).

Dr.Sid · 02-21-06, 03:36 AM

Oh yes .. I tested it yesterday and DIFFAR has really only slightly lower range than VLAD. About 6nm. It is more affected by seastate (especially the shallow version) but it is quite OK. With 10nm spacing and hexagonal pattern it should work.
So no problem with me, except the loadout screen for OHP's helos would be nice.

compressioncut · 02-21-06, 07:08 PM

Helos don't area search with sonobuoys, that's the P-3's job - they simply don't carry enough to do anything but a quick datum search. A helo's best search tactic is dipping, although what is supposed to happen is the FFG's tail gets a contact and the helo gets sent down the LOB to prosecute it.

Unfortunately the AI helo doesn't work real well for dipping and we're kind of forced to employ it in an awkward manner.

And yes, a mile or less of detection range with a buoy is not unheard of. Really good buoy detections are down to hundreds of yards or less. The hydrophone is the size of a baseball, you can't really expect too much more (VLADs are different of course).

02-18-06, 07:33 AM	#1
hachiman Planesman Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Edinburgh Jockland Posts: 199 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	Preferred Sonobuoy? What your preferred Sonobuoy type ? Do you just use the one all the time or different ones for different scenarios? Thanx __________________ Whats not to love about Submarines? Long'Hard and full of Seamen!!

02-18-06, 10:56 AM	#2
Bort Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Studying in Atlanta Posts: 919 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	VLAD for searching, DICASS for pinning, never use DIFAR. :\|\ __________________ GT Aerospace

02-18-06, 01:15 PM	#3
OneShot Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 956 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	With the new 1.03 most depths for the buoys are changed ... unlike before you actually need to take a look at the water depths now to pick the right buoy ... using a VLAD Shallow in less then 600ft of water will only allow you to listen to the rumblings in the mud ... __________________ All the things you always wanted to know about Dangerous Waters but never dared to ask!

02-18-06, 02:29 PM	#4
Sub Sailor Commander Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Orofino, Idaho Posts: 443 Downloads: 66 Uploads: 0	Revised Depths Here there some place I can go to see what the new depths are? Thanks, Ron Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret)

02-18-06, 05:27 PM	#6
Hobnail Bosun Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 67 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Considering the new layer modeling my new favourite buoy is the BT __________________ My TMA is like a drunk game of \"Pin the Tail on the Donkey\" Be kind.

02-18-06, 03:32 PM	#5
Tarrasque Lieutenant Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: UK Posts: 253 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 0	The new depths can be found in the manual errata, and have also been updated in the USNI database. However, for your convenience: DiCASS Shallow = 90 ft DiCASS Deep = 800 ft DiFAR Shallow = 90 ft DiFAR Deep = 400 ft VLAD Shallow = 600 ft VLAD Deep = 1200 ft

02-20-06, 03:10 AM	#7
Dr.Sid The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Hell why ? SInce DIFFAR has really awfull range, you can cover just no area with OHP helos (and you still can't choose buoy load). If you have 200ft of water, you have just 4 diffar shalow and 4 diccas shallow. Well twice that if you have 2 helos. What can you do with that ?

02-20-06, 05:28 AM	#9
Dr.Sid The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	No by itself .. of course .. but with 8 weak buoys you already have to know where the sub is. Which you usualy don't. And whole trick of helos is not to get FFG in torpedo range of the sub. With 4 VLADs you could really cover some area, because they have nice range. Some scenarios for sure expect you to use all VLADs you can carry. I just don't get why VLAD shallow goes for 600ft !? What exactly is shalow on that ? I would make all shalow-ones go to 90ft, all deep-ones to 800 ft. Btw. how do I make helo to reload buoys ? They somehow don't want to do it .. or wait .. maybe they need just more time, right ?

02-20-06, 06:38 AM	#11
OneShot Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 956 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Dr.Sid ... take a look at FAS or GlobalSecurity.org or some other pages and research the differences of the buoys used in DW. You will notice that they have quite differing characteristics and uses. To stay with the VLAD ... before 1.03 there was no real modelling of the layer as well as uniform buoy depths which were not really consistent with what should be according to unclassified Real Life sources. Since VLADs had a slight advantage (not more then 1 nm ususally, mostly less) and otherwise same characteristics as DIFAR, the choice was simple. Now with 1.03 we have a clearly modelled layer which is usually deeper then the old Deep buoys (400ft). After a lot of lobbying SCS finally agreed to bring some more realism into DW and fit the buoys to the new conditions and their real life counterparts (certainly not perfect, but close enough for gameplay purposes). So what are the buoys for ? DIFAR are good for littoral waters and can go as deep as 400ft, VLADs are designed and used in open waters of usually 800ft and more (VLAD Shallow is now 600ft). DICASS retain both a very shallow (90ft) and get a slightly deeper depth then before to get below some of the layers. And not to forget the cable of the Hydrophone was extended to 2500ft (or was it 2000ft) and speed of deployment increased. With these changes the Airborne plattforms are now capable to reach below the layers. Bottom line, every buoy now has its strenghts and weaknesses and your loadout has to be careful selected before starting the mission. Yep that might suck in some cases for the FFG drivers with AI Helo, because they may not be able to use all of the buoys, but then hopefully sooner or later the ASTAC station will get a revamp... __________________ All the things you always wanted to know about Dangerous Waters but never dared to ask!

02-20-06, 08:39 AM	#12
Dr.Sid The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	So diffar has only about 1 nm range ? Is it really that weak ? Please tell me how you detect sub in area 20nm x 20nm with that ? Even if you can select loadout it can be a trouble, but let's talk about FFG + helos, since most missions for FFG are exactly like this. And what more, usualy you start on the border of the are or even in the middle of the area, so you really don't have a time to do deploy nice SB field. Some missions are just badly unbalanced. You are ordered to do impossible things. Well don't get me wrong .. I enjoy even impossible missions

02-20-06, 08:43 AM	#13
OneShot Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 956 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	You got me wrong ... i meant a max of 1nm of less detection distance then the VLAD ... so if the VLAD can detect out to 7nm under certain conditions the DIFAR might detect at 6nm or 6.5nm under the same conditions ... The DIFAR certainly isn't limited to 1nm. However you have to keep in mind that the accoustic conditions have a huge impact after 1.03. Now it really matters what time of day, month it is what type of bottom you have and how deep the water is (not to mention the preselected SSP by the Mission Designer). __________________ All the things you always wanted to know about Dangerous Waters but never dared to ask!

02-21-06, 03:36 AM	#14
Dr.Sid The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Oh yes .. I tested it yesterday and DIFFAR has really only slightly lower range than VLAD. About 6nm. It is more affected by seastate (especially the shallow version) but it is quite OK. With 10nm spacing and hexagonal pattern it should work. So no problem with me, except the loadout screen for OHP's helos would be nice.

02-21-06, 07:08 PM	#15
compressioncut Loader Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 90 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Helos don't area search with sonobuoys, that's the P-3's job - they simply don't carry enough to do anything but a quick datum search. A helo's best search tactic is dipping, although what is supposed to happen is the FFG's tail gets a contact and the helo gets sent down the LOB to prosecute it. Unfortunately the AI helo doesn't work real well for dipping and we're kind of forced to employ it in an awkward manner. And yes, a mile or less of detection range with a buoy is not unheard of. Really good buoy detections are down to hundreds of yards or less. The hydrophone is the size of a baseball, you can't really expect too much more (VLADs are different of course). __________________