Should the USCG be getting more bang for it's buck?

[Bort]

For those unaware, the US Coast Guard is in the midst of a huge cutter/aircraft aquistion program called deepwater. The crown jewel of this effort is the new Bertholf class 418" National Security Cutters. These will be the largest non-icebreakers the Coast Guard has ever operated and should be capable of deploying with Carrier Strike Groups overseas or conducting long range independent patrols. They look to be nice ships with a semi stealthy design and excellent systems, but IMHO they are lacking in one crucial aspect-weapons. They are to be equipped with just 1 57mm bofors main gun and a CIWS (either a phalanx or SeaRam) plus the usual .50 cals and small arms. Thats it. The USCG up until the 90's operated cutters with torpedos, LAMPS data links, sonar, a three inch gun and a Phalanx plus, for a short time, Harpoons. These cutters were much shorter, less beamy and had less displacement than the new Bertholf class. Why not give the new cutters weapons to play a wider role in warfare and homeland security? A sonar of some sort, twin triple torpedo tubes and perhaps even an eight or even sixteen cell VLS aft of the gun capable of carrying the Evolved Sea Sparrow in quad packs or VLASROC and a Harpoon launcher with the required electronics would make this vessel a viable modern combatant in ASW, with limited ASUW and AAW capability, able both to supplement USN forces and be a more potent force in homeland security as well. What's your opinion?



http://www.uscg.mil/deepwater/[/img]

[Konovalov]

Those new Bertholf class Cutters look awesome. Really nice lines. :|\

[TteFAboB]

They look fantastic indeed, I don't know their place in the US Navy, but if you can afford to arm them better, why not indeed? Unless the money is necessary elsewhere, on a more important program.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by TteFAboB

...I don't know their place in the US Navy...

For those who don't know in peacetime the USCG is basically a military police force now under the control of the Department of Homeland Security (before they were under the control of the department of the Treasury and then the Department of Transportation). They do operate along side the US Navy but only during wartime (or on the order of the President) do they become an arm of the Department of the Navy.

Anyways some additional weapons on the Cutters would be nice but I don't think it really needs Harpoon missiles. A few ESSMs and torpedoes would be nice. Maybe mount something much smaller like the Penguin missile. Sonar is a must have though, maybe even HFS ones for hunting mines, I think that is something terrorists might try in the future.

[Mustang]

no more Ice-Breakers?
Will they keep the old ones in service for ICe-oPS?

I think the coast guard should have ASUW Defense, Offense and Detection capabilities. AAW Offense, Defense and Detection Capability and ASW Defense and Detection capability.

ASUW- The reason is clear, ASUW is done daily to check for contraband, criminals, etc.

AAW- I think they should be able to accurately detect a missle, fire a chaff to confuse it lock onto to whatever aircraft fired it at them and return the favor.

ASW- I don't think it should be loaded for submarine combat. I think it should be able to accurately detect and then report to the navy an enemy sub or investigate a posssub and in the event launch countermeasures hopeing someone forgot the safties on their torpedo. Maybe they could be loaded with depth charges but their boats are so small I don't think it would work.

[Takeda Shingen]

Essentially, I agree with Mustang and TLAM on the points of ASUW and AAW. Regarding SONAR applications, I tend to agree with TLAM in the capacity of having HFAS for mines and perhaps MF active for basic submarine detection. However, no torpedoes. Leave the ASW for the navy.

[Torplexed]

Very sleek looking ship.

Sonar is certainly a must. I've read of at least two instances in which the drug cartels in South America attempted to build a submarine for smuggling purposes. Maybe someday they'll succeed in creating a oceanic version.

[TteFAboB]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/915059.stm

A torpedo would be overkill, simply wait for it to surface and ram the thing to death!

[Bort]

In addition to a hull or bow mounted sonar, I think that it would be wise to have a modular towed array that could be fitted, perhaps in place of the large RHIB docking wells at the stern. This would greatly expand ASW capabilities in deep waters.

[TLAM Strike]

The RHIBs are more important than a towed array for a Cutter. Their job is to go board and inspect ships not act as a ASW ship. Having some ASW gear is good but turning it in to a Frigate isn't what the USCG needs.

[PeriscopeDepth]

IMHO, I think money would be far better spent giving each ocean going USCG vessel a SpecOps team, either military or a new USCG team (don't believe the USCG operates any SpecOps types?) I think giving them torpedoes, sonar, and VLS weapons are a waste of money. There is no vast Soviet Navy that's going to be parking off the US coast in a time of war anymore. Smuggler submarines can be handled with a FLIR and Hellfires. Multimillion dollar combat systems are not needed.

Not that I oppose spending money on the CG. I just think money would be better spent where it would be used. To me this would mean purchasing a few mini-LHD vessels (or perhaps even modifying large merchants?) that have the capacity for about 4 UAVs that have something similar to Predator B specs and two MH-60Rs. A general acqusition of UAVs by the CG would be a good thing. You could operate a small detachment from civil fields on the coast. Cheaper and more effecient than operating the CGs current search aircraft probably. And it's better for ID'ing threats that may enter the country and boarding them. Which is what the USCG is for IMO, we already have a large Navy that blows things up.

PD

[Bort]

The RHIBs are more important than a towed array for a Cutter. Their job is to go board and inspect ships not act as a ASW ship. Having some ASW gear is good but turning it in to a Frigate isn't what the USCG needs.

As you can see in the concept images in my original post, the Bertholf would still have 2 RHIBS, launched over the side from amidships, even without the rear ramps. All i'm suggesting is that if the Bertholf were used in a primarily ASW role, the ramps could be removed and a towed array fitted.

[Bort]

IMHO, I think money would be far better spent giving each ocean going USCG vessel a SpecOps team, either military or a new USCG team (don't believe the USCG operates any SpecOps types?)

They do, sort of. The USCG formed several MSST's (Maritime Safety and Security Teams) after 9/11, they are equiped with special boats and heavy weapons, and have special training for anti-terroism and law enforcement. They are trained for vertical (helo) insertion via zip line to ships and are experts in boarding.

A general acqusition of UAVs by the CG would be a good thing. You could operate a small detachment from civil fields on the coast. Cheaper and more effecient than operating the CGs current search aircraft probably. And it's better for ID'ing threats that may enter the country and boarding them.

The USCG is getting UAV's. The Bell Eagle Eye tilt rotor in the near term, which can be operated from land as well as the larger cutters, and in the long term some Global Hawk ultra-long range UAV's.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

A general acqusition of UAVs by the CG would be a good thing. You could operate a small detachment from civil fields on the coast. Cheaper and more effecient than operating the CGs current search aircraft probably. And it's better for ID'ing threats that may enter the country and boarding them.

You are forgetting the Search and Rescue aspect of the CG, large C-130s etc are very good for SAR since they can deploy rafts and air drop food to people in distress. The search aircraft is often the first on scene and should be capable of more then just radioing for help.

If you were on a ship in distress would you rather see a C-130 overhead that could drop rafts and supplies or a UAV that just buzzes around?

[Kapitan]

From my view id love to see the C130 dropping me a raft if i were in distress, but instead for my effort id end up seeing some guy waving to me hundreds of miles away.

I agree these cutters should be heavily armed especialy in the carrbean side with the drug smugglers and what not, yes there are warships out there but they cant be everywhere.