Er.. Convoy Approach.

Salvadoreno · 01-26-06, 12:22 AM

Okay guys i know this has been asked before, but i just cant find it. My latest convoy attacked resulted in 3 ships sunk, a coastal merchant, and 2 troop transports. But the problem was this. It had about 7 escorts. And at first i was going to try and approach submerged, but scrapped that when i came to close to a DD. So i backed off, and followed the convoy due north about 5000m away starboard (left). But i noticed my bridge watch took a kneel, and usually that means ive been spotted right? Well though nothing happened i continued to approach and wait.... But no matter wut it seems like if i am on the surfrace for a while, regardless of the monstrous waves that are suppose to be hiding me, the escorts eventually catch on. Even if i am very far away. Seems like a bug, like after a certain amount of time you will get spotted. Well after a game of cat and mouse and diving and surfacing i got into good firing positio. but because of my poor skills as a submarine captain only managed to sink 3 ships. With 3 torps hitting 1 coastal merchant on accident. (the troop transport was beside it)
What was the problem with those escorts?? When i submerge i start to lose the convoy, and even if i am 5000m away with 7 knots underwater i eventually get detected as well. kinda lame.

Ducimus · 01-26-06, 02:21 AM

Radar makes any surface approach a bad idea.

Your best bet is the classic "Night surface attack" up until about the middle of 1941. Thats when the first radar starts to appear, but their range is rather limited, but its wide enough to cause you problems. By 1942, i have all but abandoned any surface approaches.

If your attacking a 7 escort convoy, it sounds like your in 1943.

Your best bet is to get ahead of the convoy, submerge, and wait for them to cross your path. This is called an "end round attack". The key here is you have to know how to intercept a convoy. Once you have an idea of their course, you need to plot how long where they'll be, in how many hours. This is based on their speed.

For example a slow convoy is usualy traveling at 7 kt. I can tell you off the top of my head that they'll have gone 13 KM in one hour. At 20 kts you can cover about 37 KM in the same time period. If the distances overlap, your golden. Research this in the forum FAQ, theres guides that give further details about what im talking about assuming your not already doing this.

ONce you get ahead of the convoy and their approaching your position, ive found taht directly infront of the convoy is a bad idea, as the lead escort usualy can detect you. What i do is get off to oneside of the convoy at a diagnal, trying to get in between the side guard, and the convoy. Then, wait tell the lead escort passes, then move in so that i have the convoy at my bow, and the convoys flanking escorts at my stern. Often Im rambunctious enough that ill travel far enough to get inside the convoys first 2 columns of ships and bring both my bow and stern tubes to bear.

Once you let loose your fish, dont loiter, start diving before they impact. YOu need to buy yourself time while they dont know your there to get deep. You can get away with not diving right away pre1943, but once your into 43' shoot your fish, and set dive planes to normal dive before they impact.

Deimos01 · 01-26-06, 07:56 AM

Also, if you are traveling at 7 kts submerged then you are going pretty fast and making alot of noise. It wont take long for the DDs to hear you at that speed.

The Avon Lady · 01-26-06, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deimos01

Also, if you are traveling at 7 kts submerged then you are going pretty fast and making alot of noise. It wont take long for the DDs to hear you at that speed.

Not if you keep your distance and observe the direction the escorts are travelling in.

No matter what, escort's sonar range is much smaller than their radar range, once radars become available.

John O · 01-26-06, 03:07 PM

In addition to the good advice above, while waiting for the escorts to pass I try to stay below periscope depth in rough weather. Maintaining periscope depth is not often possible and I've been spotted when my conning tower broaches the surface.

I stay submerged to about 16-20 feet in rough weather until its time to shoot.

Ducimus · 01-26-06, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John O

In addition to the good advice above, while waiting for the escorts to pass I try to stay below periscope depth in rough weather. Maintaining periscope depth is not often possible and I've been spotted when my conning tower broaches the surface.

I stay submerged to about 16-20 feet in rough weather until its time to shoot.

Yeah, broaching is a big problem in rough weather and one more reason i like IX boats. Your periscope has a longer reach (at least i think it does, could be just an impression i get), so you can settle the boat a little bit deeper then a VII and still be able to see through the periscope.. Whenver im in an VII boat, i tend to broach alot.

Letum · 01-26-06, 04:08 PM

I remember in SHII the radar seamed even worse. They could pick up my periscope before I even got a visual

Ducimus · 01-26-06, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letum

I remember in SHII the radar seamed even worse. They could pick up my periscope before I even got a visual

They can in SH3 too. Late 1943 and onward, that 3 cm radar is murder.

3cm radar + snorkel = ashcan on your wintergarden.

Salvadoreno · 01-26-06, 07:58 PM

er just to inform every1 its only dec 1939... Well now im in March 1940 cuzz i finished that patrol. But it was 1939 with about 7 escorts. It had a fiji light cruiser in the middle along with lots of troopships and cargo ships. So im guesing it was pretty important.

01-26-06, 12:22 AM	#1
Salvadoreno Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 887 Downloads: 119 Uploads: 0	Er.. Convoy Approach. Okay guys i know this has been asked before, but i just cant find it. My latest convoy attacked resulted in 3 ships sunk, a coastal merchant, and 2 troop transports. But the problem was this. It had about 7 escorts. And at first i was going to try and approach submerged, but scrapped that when i came to close to a DD. So i backed off, and followed the convoy due north about 5000m away starboard (left). But i noticed my bridge watch took a kneel, and usually that means ive been spotted right? Well though nothing happened i continued to approach and wait.... But no matter wut it seems like if i am on the surfrace for a while, regardless of the monstrous waves that are suppose to be hiding me, the escorts eventually catch on. Even if i am very far away. Seems like a bug, like after a certain amount of time you will get spotted. Well after a game of cat and mouse and diving and surfacing i got into good firing positio. but because of my poor skills as a submarine captain only managed to sink 3 ships. With 3 torps hitting 1 coastal merchant on accident. (the troop transport was beside it) What was the problem with those escorts?? When i submerge i start to lose the convoy, and even if i am 5000m away with 7 knots underwater i eventually get detected as well. kinda lame. __________________

01-26-06, 03:07 PM	#5
John O Gunner Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 99 Downloads: 12 Uploads: 0	Good Advice In addition to the good advice above, while waiting for the escorts to pass I try to stay below periscope depth in rough weather. Maintaining periscope depth is not often possible and I've been spotted when my conning tower broaches the surface. I stay submerged to about 16-20 feet in rough weather until its time to shoot. __________________ John O There is No Finish Line, Keep Running!

01-26-06, 04:08 PM	#7
Letum Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: York - UK Posts: 6,079 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	I remember in SHII the radar seamed even worse. They could pick up my periscope before I even got a visual __________________

01-26-06, 07:58 PM	#9
Salvadoreno Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 887 Downloads: 119 Uploads: 0	er just to inform every1 its only dec 1939... Well now im in March 1940 cuzz i finished that patrol. But it was 1939 with about 7 escorts. It had a fiji light cruiser in the middle along with lots of troopships and cargo ships. So im guesing it was pretty important. __________________

01-26-06, 02:21 AM	#2
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Radar makes any surface approach a bad idea. Your best bet is the classic "Night surface attack" up until about the middle of 1941. Thats when the first radar starts to appear, but their range is rather limited, but its wide enough to cause you problems. By 1942, i have all but abandoned any surface approaches. If your attacking a 7 escort convoy, it sounds like your in 1943. Your best bet is to get ahead of the convoy, submerge, and wait for them to cross your path. This is called an "end round attack". The key here is you have to know how to intercept a convoy. Once you have an idea of their course, you need to plot how long where they'll be, in how many hours. This is based on their speed. For example a slow convoy is usualy traveling at 7 kt. I can tell you off the top of my head that they'll have gone 13 KM in one hour. At 20 kts you can cover about 37 KM in the same time period. If the distances overlap, your golden. Research this in the forum FAQ, theres guides that give further details about what im talking about assuming your not already doing this. ONce you get ahead of the convoy and their approaching your position, ive found taht directly infront of the convoy is a bad idea, as the lead escort usualy can detect you. What i do is get off to oneside of the convoy at a diagnal, trying to get in between the side guard, and the convoy. Then, wait tell the lead escort passes, then move in so that i have the convoy at my bow, and the convoys flanking escorts at my stern. Often Im rambunctious enough that ill travel far enough to get inside the convoys first 2 columns of ships and bring both my bow and stern tubes to bear. Once you let loose your fish, dont loiter, start diving before they impact. YOu need to buy yourself time while they dont know your there to get deep. You can get away with not diving right away pre1943, but once your into 43' shoot your fish, and set dive planes to normal dive before they impact.

01-26-06, 07:56 AM	#3
Deimos01 Frogman Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: St louis Posts: 304 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	Also, if you are traveling at 7 kts submerged then you are going pretty fast and making alot of noise. It wont take long for the DDs to hear you at that speed.