PAYWARE or FREEWARE?

Marhkimov · 01-10-06, 12:41 AM

Please give me your honest opinions? (And finally, a serious topic from Marhkimov!)

The MOST highly anticipated mod for Combat Flight Simulator 3 is called Over Flanders Fields (OFF). It was over a year in development by regular CFS3 community members. Just recently, the first of their three phases was released... As freeware.

But even more recently, they have announced that their subsequent mods, phases two and three, will be sold as payware. Supposedly, this is to support their server and website budget. Apparently, they don't want to upload their mods to free public servers.

Even if you guys have no care in the world about CFS3 or OFF, what does everyone think about this topic? Payware or Freeware??? And why?

sonar732 · 01-10-06, 01:00 AM

I'd suggest going to Aces High2 and checking them out!

Gizzmoe · 01-10-06, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marhkimov

But even more recently, they have announced that their subsequent mods, phases two and three, will be sold as payware.

For how much?

Marhkimov · 01-10-06, 01:26 AM

Not sure yet...

But as much as I love OFF, I am more interested in discussing the philosophical issues between choosing to make mods available as freeware or payware.

lesrae · 01-10-06, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gizzmoe

For how much?

Agreed, I'd be happy paying a few quid for someone's mod work, but once the price starts to get higher than Â£10 or so I want an official, supported product.

Marhkimov · 01-10-06, 01:38 AM

As a modder myself, I have always believed in freeware.

This is what I think about the entire act of modding:

For me, modding is about slaving my ASS off... Spending every awake moment of my freetime trying to make that last tweek or improvement... It's about being stuck at an intersection on the way home and coming up with a great idea, and rushing home to see if it works... It's about reading wonderful and inspirational responses from people I don't even know, saying things such as, "Amazing work! Great job! You guys are the best!"... It's about making people happy, by giving them more than they ever asked for... And in the end, I will have gained a very high reward: the satisfaction of making others happy. That feeling is worth more than money itself.

And think about it; if I was out to make a quick buck, then I wouldn't resort to modding with my freetime. Instead, I'd get a job, or something that pays REAL money...

IMHO modding is meant to be a gift from the soul; an act of kindness from one's heart. Modding is lending your services to the community, free of lust for acclaim or reward... Too bad the OFF team doesn't share my opinion.

Gizzmoe · 01-10-06, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marhkimov

But as much as I love OFF, I am more interested in discussing the philosophical issues between choosing to make mods available as freeware or payware.

Like lesrae I would be willing to pay a small amount for such a huge mod (5USD is ok IMO). But one thing doesnÂ´t make sense... You said that they donÂ´t want to upload their mod to free public servers. Why? ItÂ´s not ok to moan about server costs when there are enough ways to distribute a mod via free services like Fileplanet, Filefront and of course Bittorrent.

Marhkimov · 01-10-06, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gizzmoe

You said that they donÂ´t want to upload their mod to free public servers. Why? ItÂ´s not ok to moan about server costs when there are enough ways to distribute a mod via free services like Fileplanet, Filefront and of course Bittorrent.

That's exactly what I told them on their forums...

But apparently, my suggestions fell upon deaf ears. We as the SH3 Community would be able to sustain ourselves, EVEN IF terrapin's site were to go offline forever. If needed, it would be just as simple for us to switch to using fileplanet, filefront, and other FREE services.

IMO, they absolutely don't need to service their own personal websites and download servers, especially if they are too expensive. I'm not sure why they do what they do...

Gizzmoe · 01-10-06, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marhkimov

I'm not sure why they do what they do...

Well, itÂ´s quite obvious. They want to make money and I fully understand this. They just shouldnÂ´t lie about it. They released the first part of the mod, it makes people hungry for more and then they later sell the improved version. ThatÂ´s quite clever! "Full Canvas Jacket" for RB3D also wasnÂ´t free, they sold it for more than $20.

Iceman · 01-10-06, 02:13 AM

Don't know if ya know an old "American" saying....Gas,Grass, or Ass....No One Rides For Free.

Free is good even great but hard work at something cannot be taken for granted.

2cents

Gizzmoe · 01-10-06, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

Don't know if ya know an old "American" saying....Gas,Grass, or Ass....No One Rides For Free.

Free is good even great but hard work at something cannot be taken for granted.

2cents

Absolutely right!

Marhkimov · 01-10-06, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gizzmoe

Well, itÂ´s quite obvious. They want to make money and I fully understand this. They just shouldnÂ´t lie about it. They released the first part of the mod, it makes people hungry for more and then they later sell the improved version. ThatÂ´s quite clever! "Full Canvas Jacket" for RB3D also wasnÂ´t free, they sold it for more than $20.

It's really contradictory to think so because they are such nice guys. They always reply to posts and help people with their mod.

It's just hard to believe that they would do something so blatantly devious.

For comparisons, think if Beery or oRGy released their mods for free, and later they decide to make us pay for the newer versions...

Marhkimov · 01-10-06, 02:19 AM

And against popular opinion, there IS such thing as a free lunch. This is what my Dad used to tell me:
The only time there's ever a free lunch, is when you decide to offer your own lunch for free.

And that's about the only thing I believe from my Dad.

Onkel Neal · 01-10-06, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

Free is good even great but hard work at something cannot be taken for granted.

2cents

Well said. Most things with value have an associated price.

Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense · 01-10-06, 10:26 AM

... plus, the increasing complexity of the target apps require a lot more work on the part of the modders nowadays when compared to what was needed a few years ago...

i used to whip out Flight Sim scenery and planes way back when... but look at what's required for a decent aircraft or scenery model for the current FS...

also, it requires additional, and sometimes expensive tools to mod some of these games... not to mention the time devoted to such tasks.

yeah... if fairly priced, i'd have no objection to paying for something i thought was worthwhile...

--Mike

01-10-06, 12:41 AM	#1
Marhkimov Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bay Area, California, USA Posts: 2,377 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	PAYWARE or FREEWARE? Please give me your honest opinions? (And finally, a serious topic from Marhkimov!) The MOST highly anticipated mod for Combat Flight Simulator 3 is called Over Flanders Fields (OFF). It was over a year in development by regular CFS3 community members. Just recently, the first of their three phases was released... As freeware. But even more recently, they have announced that their subsequent mods, phases two and three, will be sold as payware. Supposedly, this is to support their server and website budget. Apparently, they don't want to upload their mods to free public servers. Even if you guys have no care in the world about CFS3 or OFF, what does everyone think about this topic? Payware or Freeware??? And why? __________________ It takes two to tango

01-10-06, 01:26 AM	#4
Marhkimov Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bay Area, California, USA Posts: 2,377 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Not sure yet... But as much as I love OFF, I am more interested in discussing the philosophical issues between choosing to make mods available as freeware or payware. __________________ It takes two to tango

01-10-06, 01:38 AM	#6
Marhkimov Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bay Area, California, USA Posts: 2,377 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	As a modder myself, I have always believed in freeware. This is what I think about the entire act of modding: For me, modding is about slaving my ASS off... Spending every awake moment of my freetime trying to make that last tweek or improvement... It's about being stuck at an intersection on the way home and coming up with a great idea, and rushing home to see if it works... It's about reading wonderful and inspirational responses from people I don't even know, saying things such as, "Amazing work! Great job! You guys are the best!"... It's about making people happy, by giving them more than they ever asked for... And in the end, I will have gained a very high reward: the satisfaction of making others happy. That feeling is worth more than money itself. And think about it; if I was out to make a quick buck, then I wouldn't resort to modding with my freetime. Instead, I'd get a job, or something that pays REAL money... IMHO modding is meant to be a gift from the soul; an act of kindness from one's heart. Modding is lending your services to the community, free of lust for acclaim or reward... Too bad the OFF team doesn't share my opinion. __________________ It takes two to tango

01-10-06, 02:19 AM	#13
Marhkimov Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bay Area, California, USA Posts: 2,377 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	And against popular opinion, there IS such thing as a free lunch. This is what my Dad used to tell me: The only time there's ever a free lunch, is when you decide to offer your own lunch for free. And that's about the only thing I believe from my Dad. __________________ It takes two to tango

01-10-06, 01:00 AM	#2
sonar732 The Old Man Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Central MO Posts: 1,562 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	I'd suggest going to Aces High2 and checking them out!

01-10-06, 02:13 AM	#10
Iceman Ace of the Deep Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mesa AZ, Arizona, USA Posts: 1,253 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Don't know if ya know an old "American" saying....Gas,Grass, or Ass....No One Rides For Free. Free is good even great but hard work at something cannot be taken for granted. 2cents

01-10-06, 10:26 AM	#15
Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense Commander Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 445 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	... plus, the increasing complexity of the target apps require a lot more work on the part of the modders nowadays when compared to what was needed a few years ago... i used to whip out Flight Sim scenery and planes way back when... but look at what's required for a decent aircraft or scenery model for the current FS... also, it requires additional, and sometimes expensive tools to mod some of these games... not to mention the time devoted to such tasks. yeah... if fairly priced, i'd have no objection to paying for something i thought was worthwhile... --Mike