Hasta la vista baby!

[Konovalov]

To borrow from Bill O'Reilly of the Fox News Network this has to be the most ridiculous item of the day:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2005/...676432847.html

Arnie's terminated
December 16, 2005 - 11:11AM

The Arnold Schwarzenegger Football Stadium in Austria's second-largest city Graz is to be renamed as a sign of displeasure with the city's most famous son.

A majority of members on Graz City Council voted to rename the stadium after the Austrian-born governor of California approved the execution of Stanley "Tookie" Williams, according to newspaper Kleine Zeitung.

The Terminator-turned-governor was born six kilometres outside Graz in the community of Thal.

"It's getting on our nerves that we're again and again being criticised for Schwarzenegger's actions in California," said SP Vice Mayor Welter Ferk.

DPA

[Dan D]

What is the problem?
The Austrians consider Arnie to be an Austrian. No death penalty over there.

Same thing with Donald Rumsfeld. The Rumsfeld family in Germany is not amused about “Blitzkrieg boy�.

The patriach of the family, granny Rumsfeld (older ) already has said, he, who waffles like a hairdresser will have to face consequences on is next visit home. No cookies for him with ze hot chocolate.

[FERdeBOER]

Correction: is Hasta la vista.

Europe has not capital death, is comprehensible the displeasure.

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by FERdeBOER

Correction: is Hasta la vista.

Europe has not capital death, is comprehensible the displeasure.

I have corrected. Thanks for that. Japanese and Arabic aren't that helpful when it comes to Spanish.

[Abraham]

Austria tried to capitalise on the succes story of Arnold Schwarzenegger and it now faces the consequenses.
When the - then - hyper modern Amsterdam Arena football stadium was build many people suggested to call it the Johan Cruyff Stadium, but the decision was taken not to call the stadium after a living person. You never know what he may say or do later in his life which might embarras you, although I think it's unlikely that Johan Cruyff will ever promote the death penalty.

[bradclark1]

think it's unlikely that Johan Cruyff will ever promote the death penalty.

Arny didn't promote the death penalty. He went through the facts and could find no reason to overrule a juries verdict.

[Skybird]

That guy was waiting for over 15 years to get killed. As if that is not penalty enough, already.

Deathpenalty is a term that is contradictory in itself. Penalty is a measurement you take to sanction and change the behavior of someone, or it is meant to make him compensate for the damage he has done. Killing him means he cannot change behavior, and it is no compensation as well. Thus death is not a penalty, but an act of simple revenge (which to me is all to often the case with executions), or a preemptive action. Next step is to burn people in order to clean their souls. I could eventually live with preemptive execution of maximum level-criminals under certain requirements: for example hindering a drug baron to control his business from inside a prison, or hindering free criminals to commit crimes in order to get the prisoner free, if he is a very dangerous criminal, or to protect the community of a highly dangerous individual of whom it is to be assumed that he would continue his dangerous deeds once he became free again. But death is no penalty. And to many death sentences have prooved to be wrong in the past. If a penalty is wrong, it turns the procedure into slaughter.

Schwarzenegger looked at it and saw that most Californians support death"penalty". He also wants to get reelected. so he decided to get that guy killed in order to increase his chances, at least not lowering them by stopping the execution. IMO, and basing on what I said above, that is an act of clear and intended murder. He "geht über Leichen" to continue his political career.

We will never know now how many youngster now will NOT be hindered by TW's example or his books to join a gang and start a criminal career - TW's books are known even in Germany to at least some professional social workers. Killing him after he had changed and influenced many young ones to keep away from gangs was the most stupid of all options. It also gives a clear message: it does not mean anything if you change yourself in prison and become a better man - community and state will let you down anyway and have their revenge: so why even try?

[Abraham]

Originally Posted by Skybird

That guy was waiting for over 15 years to get killed. As if that is not penalty enough, already.
Deathpenalty is a term that is contradictory in itself. Penalty is a measurement you take to sanction and change the behavior of someone, or it is meant to make him compensate for the damage he has done. Killing him means he cannot change behavior, and it is no compensation as well. Thus death is not a penalty, but an act of simple revenge (which to me is all to often the case with executions), or a preemptive action... And to many death sentences have prooved to be wrong in the past. If a penalty is wrong, it turns the procedure into slaughter.

That's Skybird, this is me and we agree!

[Skybird]

Lousy poetry, really!

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Skybird

That guy was waiting for over 15 years to get killed. As if that not is penalty enough, already.

I don't know. How do you measure it? And maybe both are deserved?

Deathpenalty is a term that is contradictory to itself. Penalty is a measuremnt you take to sanction and change the bahvior of someone.

What dictionary are you smokin'? :|\

pen·al·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pnl-t)
n. pl. pen·al·ties
A punishment established by law or authority for a crime or offense.
Something, especially a sum of money, required as a forfeit for an offense.
The disadvantage or painful consequences resulting from an action or condition: neglected his health and paid the penalty.
Sports.
A punishment, handicap, or loss of advantage imposed on a team or competitor for infraction of a rule.
An infraction of a rule; a foul.
Games. Points scored in contract bridge by the opponents when the declarer fails to make a bid. Often used in the plural.

Where did you get that "behavior change" is an inherent meaning of the word "penalty"?

Killing him means he cannot change behavior. Thus death is not a penalty, but a preemptive action (which I could accept under certain requirements: for example hindering a drug baron to control his business fro inside a prison, or hindering free criminals to commit crimes in order to get the prisoner free, if he is a very dangerous criminal), or an act of simple revenge. It never is a penalty.

Sematics and rhetoric.

Schwarzenegger looked at it and saw that most Califnrians support death"penatly". He also wants to get reelected. so he decided to get that guy killed in order to increase his chances. IMO, and basing on what I said above, that is an act of clear and intended murder.

He's obligated to uphold the law of the state he is governor of. If anyone cannot, let them resign.

And you are assuming that if he wasn't an elected official, he would be against the death penalty? Did he ever mention that?

We will never know how many youngster now will NOT be hindered to join a gang and start a criminal career by beeing affected by TW's example. Killing him after he had chnaged and infleunced many young ones to keep away from gangs was the most stupid of all options.

Numerous counter-thoughts all over the Net. I liked this one:

To A Young One Who Is An Apologist For A Terrorist.

[Abraham]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Lousy poetry, really!

It's not the poetry but the message that was remarkable.
But you broke the magic spell; we disagree again...

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

I don't know. How do you measure it? And maybe both are deserved?

What dictionary are you smokin'? :|\

pen·al·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pnl-t)
n. pl. pen·al·ties
A punishment established by law or authority for a crime or offense.
Something, especially a sum of money, required as a forfeit for an offense.
The disadvantage or painful consequences resulting from an action or condition: neglected his health and paid the penalty.
Sports.
A punishment, handicap, or loss of advantage imposed on a team or competitor for infraction of a rule.
An infraction of a rule; a foul.
Games. Points scored in contract bridge by the opponents when the declarer fails to make a bid. Often used in the plural.

Where did you get that "behavior change" is an inherent meaning of the word "penalty"?

Sematics and rhetoric.

He's obligated to uphold the law of the state he is governor of. If anyone cannot, let them resign.

And you are assuming that if he wasn't an elected official, he would be against the death penalty? Did he ever mention that?

Numerous counter-thoughts all over the Net. I liked this one:

To A Young One Who Is An Apologist For A Terrorist.

Plea for clemency: that'S how it is called. Allowing that is an act of mercy. A gift, if you want. A mercy is an act that is given although the rules read different. If it were according to the rules, then TW would have the RIGHT to see his execution beeing stopped. You talk about searching and finding a flaw in the court'S procedure and sentence. If Schwarzenegger would have found that, it would not be a mercy, but a juristical mistake.

a penalty: again, you speak bureaucratics only. the basic principle of a penalty:
Mother: "don't do that!"
Child does it.
Mother gives the child a clap (penalty): "I said don'T do that. Now stop it, or the next penalty will be worse."
Child alters it's bahvior and never do it again, to avoid the penalty.

That's also the understanding of penalty as a sanction in order to alter the subject's behavior in sociological and psychological science, and animal experimentation as well. Just think of Skinner, f.e.

I did not assume Schwarzenegger is pro or against death "penalty". Nowhere I did. I do not know his opinion, and I do not care for his opinion.

[bradclark1]

The death penalty is a tough question. Sometimes I think life without parol in an 8'x10' cell is cruel and unusual punishment and some criminals deserve it to do nothing but think why they are there. The down side of the death penalty is that some innocents die.
If I was given a choice I think I would choose death over a world 8'x10' with a bunk, toilet and sink.

[bradclark1]

Revenge or Punishment?
Aren't they the same thing?

[Abraham]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

The death penalty is a tough question. Sometimes I think life without parol in an 8'x10' cell is cruel and unusual punishment and some criminals deserve it to do nothing but think why they are there. The down side of the death penalty is that some innocents die.
If I was given a choice I think I would choose death over a world 8'x10' with a bunk, toilet and sink.

You can make a choise. People on death row usually would like to make one too, but can't.