Transparent Ocean -project-

Marhkimov · 11-02-05, 03:09 AM

For this mod project, the main goal... is to be able to see fubar's beautiful camo skins through the ocean surface.

As you probably already know, fubar has made a VIIB camo skin for the mediterranean theater. The real reason for needing camouflage (in real life) was to break up the image of a submerged u-boat from the air. But as it stands in SH3 right now, the water is 100% opaque, or 0% transparent. Some transparency, or even a little bit of transparency, would be nice. Of course, I don't plan on making the water super transparent. That would be unrealistic, and against my wishes.

If it is at all possible, I would like for increased transparency in the med, while still maintaining limited transparency in the atlantic and arctic.

I'll admit that this falls under the category of being totally "eye candy," but if anyone claims to know me, they'll know that I LOOOOOOOVE eye candy... Just take a look at most of my other mods....

I hope everyone understands my goals... And quite frankly, I hope that they are attainable...

I am theorizing that if we can see the top of our u-boat from underneath of the water, then I must believe that transparency is possible, the other way around. We might find a way to make it possible to see the bottom of our u-boat from above the water. I have heard that an SDK would be needed in order to achieve this, but I do not buy it. I'll bet that we can do this the old fashioned way... By working our tails off!

***And for those who might care to know or for those who might want to do further research, in real life this phenomenon is often called 'Secchi depth' or 'ocean turbidity'... 'Fresnel reflections' are also related.

I have done a little bit of editing in the 'scene.dat' file, but so far nothing has worked. However my results are promising.

This screenshot was taken from underwater. I 'tweeked' a few values in scene.dat in order to get this sort of bright effect:

If anyone has any ideas, comments, or helpful tips, please share. And if anyone wants to help me in achieving transparent oceans, be my guest. I will take all the help I can get!

Kpt. Lehmann · 11-02-05, 03:24 AM

Oboy! That is absolutely WICKED!

oRGy · 11-02-05, 10:18 AM

Clever idea.

Unfortunately the reflection is already modelled above water. Would you not have to add a second reflection or something like that then? Would be nearly impossible I'd say. Sergbuto is the resident expert on reflections, so he'd know better...

Have you also tried finding the water texture files and adding an alpha channel? If you do this with the u-boat skins, you can turn your u-boat transparent for example.

Marhkimov · 11-02-05, 12:40 PM

At this point, I'm not too worried about issue of "clashing" reflections. First, I want to find out if a transparent water surface is possible. Then, we'll figure out things from there.

I did have the alpha texture idea, so I will try that later tonight when I get home. The water textures are located in the 'data\Misc' folder, so it's just a matter of editing all of them. But I doubt that will work, though. There was a thread in which Flakwalker tried to make alpha channels on a flag, but it did not work.

However Sansal did post this picture:

I know that it is possible.... Maybe Sansal or another 3D modeller could help???

Rubini · 11-02-05, 01:42 PM

marhkimov,

I can be wrong but when I was messing with the nitgh sky/sea i put a alpha channel on the sea texture and the sea become transparent. I will see again. :hmm:

Feedback soon.

Rubini.

Marhkimov · 11-02-05, 01:50 PM

Oh yea, how could I forget... The water textures are also located in the 'SkyColors_*.dat' files...

Rubini, I hope you are right!

Rubini · 11-02-05, 02:53 PM

Nope.

I tried to put the alpha channel (with more or less opacity) but don't work.

Rubini.

Marhkimov · 11-02-05, 02:54 PM

darn... any more ideas out there?

rulle34 · 11-02-05, 03:34 PM

@marhkimov
What is yur main goal with this

Marhkimov · 11-02-05, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rulle34

@marhkimov
What is yur main goal with this

Good question Rulle34, I'm glad you asked...

***Copied from the first post...

My main goal... is to be able to see fubar's beautiful camo skins through the ocean surface.

As you probably already know, fubar has made a VIIB camo skin for the mediterranean theater. The real reason for needing camouflage (in real life) was to break up the image of a submerged u-boat from the air. But as it stands in SH3 right now, the water is 100% opaque, or 0% transparent. Some transparency, or even a little bit of transparency, would be nice. Of course, I don't plan on making the water super transparent. That would be unrealistic, and against my wishes.

If it is at all possible, I would like for increased transparency in the med, while still maintaining limited transparency in the atlantic and arctic.

I'll admit that this falls under the category of being totally "eye candy," but if anyone claims to know me, they'll know that I LOOOOOOOVE eye candy... Just take a look at most of my other mods....

I hope everyone understands my goals... And quite frankly, I hope that they are attainable...

And if anyone thinks that this is just eye candy, I hope to give you cavities soon.

rulle34 · 11-02-05, 04:08 PM

@marhkimov
I knew you where up to something

This is actually great

Did you read and got inspired by my link of camouflage and german subs in the Mediterrian? :P

"In the Mediterranean, the theatre where camouflage was most commonly found, a pattern of dark grey jagged splotches applied at regular intervals over the upper hull and conning tower was commonly used. Sometimes, as on U 453, there were patches with hard edges rather than jagged splotches. As the waters of the Mediterranean are much clearer than the Atlantic, U-boats could be seen from the air at a greater depth. A U-boat at periscope depth could be clearly seen from the air in daylight, so the pattern of dark splotches or patches was intended to break up the U-boatâ€™s shape sufficiently to prevent detection from the air."

Here is the link: http://uboatcolours.mysite.wanadoo-m....uk/page6.html

Marhkimov · 11-02-05, 04:14 PM

Actually, I do remember reading that... So it was YOU who inspired me! HAHAHA :rotfl:

Great job, indeed you managed to get my juices flowing.

11-02-05, 05:26 PM

I think it's a great idea. Maybe even better if there was a way to alter the Sensors files so the planes could see down to a certain depth even if we couldn't.

Still, it would be cool to use the external view and see your boat at periscope depth.

kriller2 · 11-02-05, 05:29 PM

You can tweak the water colour and reflectivity but I think the devs didn't include code to make the water transparent from the above, because they wanted to keep the system spec. low so SH3 could run on most computers... But I hope I'm wrong, good luck, it coud be great with transparent water!

I will allso poke a little with the settings/code to investigate it further.

EDIT:

Wait! there is hope it looks like SH3 can show tranparency from the above: :P

... :hmm:

Marhkimov · 11-02-05, 06:27 PM

OMG! Kriller2, in one day you cracked what no one else has even come close to cracking!!!

OMG!! OMG!! OMG!!

Keep cracking away!!!

btw, how does it look with a u-boat? And how did you do that? or is that just the normal land reflection???

11-02-05, 03:09 AM	#1
Marhkimov Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bay Area, California, USA Posts: 2,377 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Transparent Ocean -project- For this mod project, the main goal... is to be able to see fubar's beautiful camo skins through the ocean surface. As you probably already know, fubar has made a VIIB camo skin for the mediterranean theater. The real reason for needing camouflage (in real life) was to break up the image of a submerged u-boat from the air. But as it stands in SH3 right now, the water is 100% opaque, or 0% transparent. Some transparency, or even a little bit of transparency, would be nice. Of course, I don't plan on making the water super transparent. That would be unrealistic, and against my wishes. If it is at all possible, I would like for increased transparency in the med, while still maintaining limited transparency in the atlantic and arctic. I'll admit that this falls under the category of being totally "eye candy," but if anyone claims to know me, they'll know that I LOOOOOOOVE eye candy... Just take a look at most of my other mods.... I hope everyone understands my goals... And quite frankly, I hope that they are attainable... I am theorizing that if we can see the top of our u-boat from underneath of the water, then I must believe that transparency is possible, the other way around. We might find a way to make it possible to see the bottom of our u-boat from above the water. I have heard that an SDK would be needed in order to achieve this, but I do not buy it. I'll bet that we can do this the old fashioned way... By working our tails off! *And for those who might care to know or for those who might want to do further research, in real life this phenomenon is often called 'Secchi depth' or 'ocean turbidity'... 'Fresnel reflections'** are also related. I have done a little bit of editing in the 'scene.dat' file, but so far nothing has worked. However my results are promising. This screenshot was taken from underwater. I 'tweeked' a few values in scene.dat in order to get this sort of bright effect: If anyone has any ideas, comments, or helpful tips, please share. And if anyone wants to help me in achieving transparent oceans, be my guest. I will take all the help I can get! __________________ It takes two to tango

11-02-05, 03:24 AM	#2
Kpt. Lehmann GWX Project Director Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The Republic of Texas Posts: 6,992 Downloads: 124 Uploads: 0	Oboy! That is absolutely WICKED! __________________ www.thegreywolves.com All you need is good men. - Heinrich Lehmann-Willenbrock

11-02-05, 10:18 AM	#3
oRGy Crusty Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 648 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Clever idea. Unfortunately the reflection is already modelled above water. Would you not have to add a second reflection or something like that then? Would be nearly impossible I'd say. Sergbuto is the resident expert on reflections, so he'd know better... Have you also tried finding the water texture files and adding an alpha channel? If you do this with the u-boat skins, you can turn your u-boat transparent for example. __________________

11-02-05, 12:40 PM	#4
Marhkimov Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bay Area, California, USA Posts: 2,377 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	At this point, I'm not too worried about issue of "clashing" reflections. First, I want to find out if a transparent water surface is possible. Then, we'll figure out things from there. I did have the alpha texture idea, so I will try that later tonight when I get home. The water textures are located in the 'data\Misc' folder, so it's just a matter of editing all of them. But I doubt that will work, though. There was a thread in which Flakwalker tried to make alpha channels on a flag, but it did not work. However Sansal did post this picture: I know that it is possible.... Maybe Sansal or another 3D modeller could help??? __________________ It takes two to tango

11-02-05, 01:50 PM	#6
Marhkimov Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bay Area, California, USA Posts: 2,377 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Oh yea, how could I forget... The water textures are also located in the '*SkyColors_.dat**' files... Rubini, I hope you are right! __________________ It takes two to tango

11-02-05, 01:42 PM	#5
Rubini Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: São Paulo Brazil Posts: 2,728 Downloads: 132 Uploads: 0	marhkimov, I can be wrong but when I was messing with the nitgh sky/sea i put a alpha channel on the sea texture and the sea become transparent. I will see again. :hmm: Feedback soon. Rubini.

11-02-05, 02:53 PM	#7
Rubini Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: São Paulo Brazil Posts: 2,728 Downloads: 132 Uploads: 0	Nope. I tried to put the alpha channel (with more or less opacity) but don't work. Rubini.

11-02-05, 02:54 PM	#8
Marhkimov Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bay Area, California, USA Posts: 2,377 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	darn... any more ideas out there? __________________ It takes two to tango

11-02-05, 03:34 PM	#9
rulle34 Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 835 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	@marhkimov What is yur main goal with this __________________

11-02-05, 04:08 PM	#11
rulle34 Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 835 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	@marhkimov I knew you where up to something This is actually great Did you read and got inspired by my link of camouflage and german subs in the Mediterrian? :P "In the Mediterranean, the theatre where camouflage was most commonly found, a pattern of dark grey jagged splotches applied at regular intervals over the upper hull and conning tower was commonly used. Sometimes, as on U 453, there were patches with hard edges rather than jagged splotches. As the waters of the Mediterranean are much clearer than the Atlantic, U-boats could be seen from the air at a greater depth. A U-boat at periscope depth could be clearly seen from the air in daylight, so the pattern of dark splotches or patches was intended to break up the U-boatâ€™s shape sufficiently to prevent detection from the air." Here is the link: http://uboatcolours.mysite.wanadoo-m....uk/page6.html __________________

11-02-05, 04:14 PM	#12
Marhkimov Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bay Area, California, USA Posts: 2,377 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Actually, I do remember reading that... So it was YOU who inspired me! HAHAHA :rotfl: Great job, indeed you managed to get my juices flowing. __________________ It takes two to tango

11-02-05, 05:26 PM	#13
Sailor Steve Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I think it's a great idea. Maybe even better if there was a way to alter the Sensors files so the planes could see down to a certain depth even if we couldn't. Still, it would be cool to use the external view and see your boat at periscope depth.

11-02-05, 05:29 PM	#14
kriller2 Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,227 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	You can tweak the water colour and reflectivity but I think the devs didn't include code to make the water transparent from the above, because they wanted to keep the system spec. low so SH3 could run on most computers... But I hope I'm wrong, good luck, it coud be great with transparent water! I will allso poke a little with the settings/code to investigate it further. EDIT: Wait! there is hope it looks like SH3 can show tranparency from the above: :P ... :hmm: __________________ *Kriller2.* [MODs] Real Environment mod and Pacific Enviroments 4 mod

11-02-05, 06:27 PM	#15
Marhkimov Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bay Area, California, USA Posts: 2,377 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	OMG! Kriller2, in one day you cracked what no one else has even come close to cracking!!! OMG!! OMG!! OMG!! Keep cracking away!!! btw, how does it look with a u-boat? And how did you do that? or is that just the normal land reflection??? __________________ It takes two to tango