Fatigue bug, or am I missing something?

[Heavy Artillery]

Hulloo folks,

I'm noticing something a bit off with the fatigue on my current mission; when running at time compressions 32 or below, my "active" crew are becoming fatigued as usual, but the crew I have in the stern and bow quarters are *not* recuperating.

I verified this by keeping an eye on several crew members in the diesel engines room and sonar, and comparing it to some crew I had in their quarters; the active crew started at 100% rested and gradually wore down to the point that they needed replacing. The quartered crew were at exactly the same fatigue level as they were when I put them in the quarters. The fatigue had not improved one bit.

[gouldjg]

Are we talking about standard fatigue or one of the modded versions.?

[Heavy Artillery]

Well orignally, I was using the standlone "Vitamin" mod to extend the crew's shifts to 8 hours...but after a lot of glowing praise for SH3 Commander I downloaded and installled it, and at one point selected the Rub fatigue model. That's when I noticed this started happening. I can understand fatigue being more "realistically" slow then the default game has it, but a crewman losing almost half of his "fatigue" reserve while the resting crew gains none?

That seems a bit harsh.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Heavy Artillery,

If you haven't already, register for this site and check the Mods Workshop forum.

Mr. Gould has produced some very nice fatigue models just this week.

Cheers!

[gouldjg]

The RUB model is based on long term fatigue.

I am really not in the expert position to give you a full description but it goes something like this (my interpretation only).

Your crew will slowly lose Cohesion as the time at sea takes its effects on their performance i.e. stress etc (Beery is usually clearer at explaining his mod).

The RUB model represents something similar to this and threfore your crew will not recover in the quarters but still be effective if managed correctly and made better with qualifications.

When playing RUB the goal is to get qualified crew thus making some men more resilient to stress etc and also keeping boat in better order than those without.

It is a completely valid and good model and works quite well for many players. Obviously you will not think so immedietly as your crew are green rookies and need some babysitting but every modded model has this problem except the no fatigue models.

Some people think that a crew will fight just as hard on week 5 as they would on week one so there has been some debate.

I have used and enjoyed it however I wanted a little more man management and then Kaa (modder) discovered that you can have fatigue drain even when in time compression (fantastic and much more realistic).

I have now created the first 2 realtime models one 8hr and one 24hr (see modding section).

As usual the first 2 missions are always a little tricky till you get some qualified crew but then it all works in a organised way (the type IIA has way too little men but I managed to find a good balance).

Basically the realtime models work like this.

You plot a course on nav map and at every 8hr/24 (depends which model used) travel time you mark with compass or just keep an eye on your watch/clock. I mark the map and update when I change direction or speed.

Your crew will tire after 8 hour shift and it is this time that it is best to rotate them.

Your rotate crew and do a hydro check at the same time (standard Hydro check was supposed to be every 6 hours anyway). There are some benifits added when sailing underwater i.e. slightly slower drain and faster recharge rates.

Some Key Points

Your engine rooms do not drain energy when not in action i.e. Electric room will not drain when surfaced and vice versa.

Crew quarters rest men at a slower but not immpossible rate i.e. every 4-6 hours average.

Men should avoid all battle stations till battle time. I.e. the torpedo room is very demanding during reloading. I gave 4 hours average in this room which is enough for a attack run and reload though a qualified crew will perform much better.

Weather effects certain compartments at different rates i.e. the watch crew will feel more than the command room.

All quite complicated and in some ways a great but organised randomiser. This however gives such a better gaming experience.

I am setting this up to run with RUB and SH3 commander as I personally use a no fatigue model to get out of german coast and then I swap to a 8hr model during tour of duty.

I still use time compresion to go to each plotted point and the fun really starts when you plot a interception course and go on the hunt.

Not everyones cup of tea but as close to crew realism as your gonna get with this game now and in the near future. I like the fact that at any point you can get a contact and this may even be when your men are close to the end of their shifts.

Hope this helped.

[Nedlam]

I use the RuB fatigue model. It's works best if you are over 64x TC. At this TC your crew does not lose any stamina.

Basically the RuB fatigue model simulated BATTLE fatigue. (Beery please correct me if I'm way off)

Think of it like this:

When over 64x TC you probably are getting to your patrol area or patrolling without any contacts. Your crew automatically does shift changes for you so they all remain rested.

Under 64x TC you probably are tracking/looking for a vessel or positioning/attacking/running from a vessel. It is here where your men in most parts of the ship are asked to work overtime under usually stressful conditions (especially the Torpedo room and I think men assigned to repair the boat). THIS is when they start to fatigue.

NOT being able to recover is trying to represent the overall stress level of a patrol in general. Putting them in the cew quarters at least lets them not lose anymore stamina. From (admittedly) what little research I've done U-Boat crews came back shells of their former self hence the long layoff time between patrols.

The RuB fatigue model has worked well for me. When I get back from a long and active patrol most of my men are "on the brink" or exaustion and a handful have reached that point. Where if my patrol is uneventful most of my men are no worse for the wear.

I dont know what happens at 64x so I dont use it.

[wetwarev7]

Originally Posted by gouldjg

You plot a course on nav map and at every 8hr/24 (depends which model used) travel time you mark with compass or just keep an eye on your watch/clock. I mark the map and update when I change direction or speed.

Your crew will tire after 8 hour shift and it is this time that it is best to rotate them.

I would enjoy this if the crew management buttons worked properly(i.e. without crashing). I take it no one has been able to find a workaround for this? Like a keyboard shortcut, CE menu order, etc...

[gouldjg]

I have yet to have a ctd with crew management buttons so I must be lucky if this is a regular problem for some.

I did create a file that removes these buttons completely but the majority of people want the ability to fast swap rather than hand picking a rotation time.

What are the actual buttons that cause ctd?

[wetwarev7]

Originally Posted by gouldjg

I have yet to have a ctd with crew management buttons so I must be lucky if this is a regular problem for some.

I did create a file that removes these buttons completely but the majority of people want the ability to fast swap rather than hand picking a rotation time.

What are the actual buttons that cause ctd?

I've had it CTD on just about all of them. Surface cruise, damage control, etc. It has gotten to the point that I dread swapping my crew around, and it's the only reason I save my game at all. If I've just attacked a convoy, or survived getting spotted, my crew is usually in disarray, so I'll save and hit one of the crew management buttons.

It seems as if I've never had it crash on me after saving, although that could just be psychosymatic.

What I find interesting is that I've never had it crash using the watch officer to set the crew to flak/deck gun/flak and deck gun/watch, suggesting to me that a workaround is possible, but I have been unable to find which files these functions reside in.

[gouldjg]

Have you actually had a crash when dragging and dropping crew in respective compartments?.

What mods have you installed?

If you want I can pop a clean menu.ini with no fast crew buttons on screen.

This does mean you are forced to drag and drop men in respective compartments.

I know 2 more fatigue models are also being developed by other modders and these may require less movement of crew.

I would hang fire for Jungmans new die hard mod and keep an eye on Kaa's new fatigue mod.

Either that or go hardcore and manually move men all the time.

I used to like the fast buttons but hardly use them now as I have to be careful who i move to where.

Fatigue models have reached a new stage of development now that we know how to get fatigue even in time compression and set lots of tweaks.

We have even discovered how to have the compartments demand less or more energy consumption. I know people hate the engines just dropping dead etc.

It is all just a matter of keeping an eye on the mod section

[wetwarev7]

Originally Posted by gouldjg

Have you actually had a crash when dragging and dropping crew in respective compartments?.

What mods have you installed?

If you want I can pop a clean menu.ini with no fast crew buttons on screen.

I've never had SH3 crash for any other reason whatsoever, and the CTDs with the crew management happen intermittantly whether I am using SH3 vanilla or RuB.

What I would really like is a keyboard shortcut for the different cruise modes, but I cannot for the life of me figure out how/what to call them in the commands.cfg file. If I could figure that out, then I could probably figure out a way to mimic actual shift changes, swapping out rested crewmembers with tired ones while still keeping track of the qualifications.