What they do in the real world?

[ReubenJames]

I designed my own missions.

I placed my boat within the battlegroup. I can't receive any broadband nor narrow band meaningful signal.

Question: In the real world, do submarines stay very far away from its battlegroup, like at ;east 5 miles away.

[Bill Nichols]

Yep. It would not be strange for the attached sub to be much farther away than 5 nmi from the battlegroup. Remember, they are there to find enemy subs before they can get close enough to the battlegroup to launch anti-ship missiles or torpedos.

[stormrider_sp]

How many subs usually escorts a big battlegroup?!
If you had any submarine at your disposal, how many and what type would you choose to defend an american BG and the same on the russian attacker side.

[CVW11_BonKeRS]

When we did the research what to call our submarine group, we could only find the one sub that was the SSN 724 Louisville that was attached to the Nimitz Strike Group. But in saying that I'm sure if the situation was required they would employ more then one submarine to a Group.

BonKeRS
www.vcvw-11.net

[ReubenJames]

I was working on a scenario simulating a Taiwan Strait crisis. Target package located at 25-27N* 119-04E*. Maximum range stands at 178nm. Strike time pending. Mines in the area.

I notice that the whole strait is shallow waters! Nothing like 400ft deep. This is very weird. Is it good for submarine warfare or not I mean the whole area is so shallow.

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by ReubenJames

I designed my own missions.

I placed my boat within the battlegroup. I can't receive any broadband nor narrow band meaningful signal.

Question: In the real world, do submarines stay very far away from its battlegroup, like at ;east 5 miles away.

It wouldn't be unusual, but really, it depends on what the submarine is tasked to do.

[ReubenJames]

Some difficulties. See, if getting too close to the BG, I can tell who is who because of noise. Maybe what detected are actually the enemy convoy or even their diesel escorts. They have too many diesel subs.

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by ReubenJames

I notice that the whole strait is shallow waters! Nothing like 400ft deep. This is very weird. Is it good for submarine warfare or not I mean the whole area is so shallow.

It depends on what you mean by "good."

It's probably better to say, they're the only ones that CAN do it.

There's really not any good reason to put a surface ship in the straights themselves. They'd almost certainly get swatted.

The straights are easy to mine. There'd be shore-based antiship cruise missiles on at least one side. You'd be limited in your ability to maneuver a large surface fleet. They'd be vulnerable to attack by aircraft. In light of that, a submarine might not be great, but it is the best platform for doing operations there.

The thing that makes the Taiwan straights so challenging for a submarine, though, is that it's all bottom limited, so you can't expect very good sonar performance there.

Nobody said it'd be EASY. :-)

[ReubenJames]

So according to what you say, most likely naval battles will be conducted east of Taiwan?

[OKO]

Originally Posted by ReubenJames

I designed my own missions.

I placed my boat within the battlegroup. I can't receive any broadband nor narrow band meaningful signal.

Question: In the real world, do submarines stay very far away from its battlegroup, like at ;east 5 miles away.

As said Bill, 5 miles is very CLOSE to the battle group.
They use to be much farther than that.

You can try this mission =>
http://okof4.free.fr/missions/DW/MP4_Steel_storm_v1.mu

it's a fight beetween 2 task forces, with SSN opening the way for each of them.
Edit the mission to see how I put the SSN relative to the battlegroup.
As SSN have random positions, you could see the closest position with the TF is 20 miles in front of her, and the farthest is 40 miles on left or right side.

The first detection will be made on active intercept and not on sonar.
You should use this to improve you path for interception, until you get them on sonar.

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by ReubenJames

So according to what you say, most likely naval battles will be conducted east of Taiwan?

I wouldn't say that. It all depends on what everyone involved is trying to do. Honestly, I'm really not at liberty to say much in this respect. I can say, though, that putting a surface ship in the straight itself is not the smartest thing in the world to do. It doesn't really buy you much.

Since the acoustics are rotten, they can't defend themselves effectively from submarines. There's a good chance they'll find themselves in a minefield, they can't get too close to shore without getting shot at by a shore based antiship cruise missile. They'll most likely have the whole Chinese airforce after them. It's just not a good place to be if you're a surface ship. Put the surface ships somewhere else.

[Oberon]

I would have thought SSN escorts don't work that close in to CVBGs, it's not worth running the risk of having them MISIDENT it as a hostile. Plus, further away from the CVBG the sonar picture is clearer.

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I would have thought SSN escorts don't work that close in to CVBGs, it's not worth running the risk of having them MISIDENT it as a hostile. Plus, further away from the CVBG the sonar picture is clearer.

Actually, there is such a thing as underwater telephone. All they have to do is pick it up and say, "hey? is that you?" Subs aren't as out of touch with other warships as they are sometimes given credit for.

[Bill Nichols]

Originally Posted by SeaQueen

Actually, there is such a thing as underwater telephone. All they have to do is pick it up and say, "hey? is that you?" Subs aren't as out of touch with other warships as they are sometimes given credit for.

Gertrude (the 'underwater telephone') is very short range and often unreliable. And, in a wartime situation, if an escort thinks it may have an enemy sub nearby (within Gertrude range), the last thing it's CO wants to do is to pick up his Gertrude handset and say, "hey, are you a friendly?" :|\

Oberon is right on the money -- Direct Support subs want to stay away from the battlegroup -- both to aid their own sonar performance, and for self-protection from 'friendly' forces.

[compressioncut]

Originally Posted by SeaQueen

Actually, there is such a thing as underwater telephone. All they have to do is pick it up and say, "hey? is that you?" Subs aren't as out of touch with other warships as they are sometimes given credit for.

There are lots of formal rules for ship/sub interaction - waterspace management is the term. If a sub is working with a surface group there may be no permission granted for air/surface units to use ASW weapons in the area. If it's an ASW free area and a friendly sub stumbles in, oh well, he shoulda paid more attention to waterspace management. And all sorts of situations in between. Submarine generated search areas, bullpens, stovepipes, joint action areas, and on and on.

No one involved in an action is just allowed to cowboy it up however he sees fit, mainly because direct communication between ships and subs is pretty much impossible in tactical situations.