Reality vs Balance

stormrider_sp · 09-22-05, 12:08 PM

I wrote this poll because I noticed that some people (like me) prefer realism in first place, no matter what, and some people prefer the platforms to be balanced.

In my opinion, what would balance the game is not the aspect and respect of each platform. I think they should be modelled as close as possible to reality, and the mission designer is the one responsible for the balance.

What you guys think?

OKO · 09-22-05, 12:45 PM

I think it's a bad question Stormrider

realism doesn't mean unbalanced

the best prove is with the new MOD
As it give more realism, it also balance the game much more than before.

So your question is bit distorted

But I totally agree about the mission designer

stormrider_sp · 09-22-05, 02:11 PM

This question came in to my mind while I was reading another topic, regarding the PerryÂ´s cavitation chart.
Someone said that he believes that it cavitated at 10knots but to balance things, he suggested the speed of 8knots. I asked to myself, why?

Molon Labe · 09-22-05, 02:59 PM

That's a bad question. Realism and balance, first of all, are rarely mutually exclusive. And when they are, it's not a one or the other question. Both of these elements are VERY important in a good sim game, and have to be measured on a sliding scale.

Kapitan · 09-22-05, 03:34 PM

prefer reality rather than a game same as fs2004

goldorak · 09-22-05, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

That's a bad question. Realism and balance, first of all, are rarely mutually exclusive. And when they are, it's not a one or the other question. Both of these elements are VERY important in a good sim game, and have to be measured on a sliding scale.

I agree.
A good sim must have an equilibrium point between realistic gameplay without ginving one side or the other an enormous advantage.
Remember that its only a game and it must be enjoyable to play the 2 sides having more or less the same possibility of wining.
If someone wants 100% realism then he shouldn't be playing a sim but joining the armed forces instead.

darksythe · 09-22-05, 06:38 PM

Balance in DW with the mod by LWAMI comes from the skipper at the helm. Not the platform he is commanding. :|\

Bellman · 09-23-05, 02:17 AM

I agree with much that has been said.

Given the tools provided by SS its up to the modders and scenario designers to achieve a balance
between realism and gameplay providing a 'hook' for a wide spectrum of gamers.

Yes ''gamers'' - the military constantly use the term so we should not be scared of it.

I would like to see more balance in gameplay by the introduction of 'drivable' Red surfs.
Then the prospect of Red v Blue Fleets would get the adrenalin going.

If Blues and Reds were formed for MP fleet players could train together, issue challenges or take part in organised 'Wars'

It has always been difficult (time zones etc) to bring multi players together but the incentive of team fleet play may be the catalyst.

Let existing Fleet members protest that they have this. I regret my experience is that they usually separate
functions into divisions and do not train as multi platform teams.

PS. Is Kapitain pointing in the right direction by establishing a Red Fleet ?

darksythe · 09-23-05, 11:42 AM

The VMC navy is at this exact time to doing exactly what you are talking about. We have for years had a aprimarily american fleet based out ot Fleet Command / Subcommand. (Not to mention the non naval platforms) We are now running Dangerous Waters and it is under the new platform that The red fleet of Kapitans you are talking about sails.

I encourage each and every one of you here that wants to have the opportunity that bellman refers to to come on over to the VMC navy and check things out. It could very easily become your new home.

darksythe · 09-23-05, 11:44 AM

forgot the url....

www.vmcnavy.net

Nikita · 09-23-05, 02:04 PM

Well, we'll never know how real a sim is 'cause is restricted information. Just get an approximate feeling of what could be IMHO.

mike_espo · 09-23-05, 03:29 PM

Frankly, It would not matter to me if I played MP and lost, as long as the platforms perform realistically and I have a fighting chance...i.e realistic sonar conditions and layers......

JoGary(sco) · 09-23-05, 07:28 PM

I recon Bellman was problebly talking about the Seawolves when he said they devide up in to diferent devisions. That is true as we are now. But in very near future we will be playing all platforms in one devision. The SSN devision. We are just in progress of making report pages and scoring system for all platform. Also our ROE will be changed to accomidate all platforms.

I recon it we will be playing all platforms in the SSN devision by Christmas if not earlier. The Seawolves have the biggest DW comunity of any online fleet so thair is no prob finding a game either. We have training for those that want it and with our ROE there is little chance of playing cheats. Unlike HL :rotfl:
I currently have over 100 contacts in my ICQ and 90% of those are Seawolves who play DW.

LT JoGary RDDN-SSN16thFOO/TO

http://seawolves.org/ssn/

Bellman · 09-23-05, 11:49 PM

Jo thats good news if long overdue - I remember reading proposals for change along these lines a year ago.

Now are you taking bets on how long it will take to introduce Blue v Red Fleets/Divisions ?

The Seawolves is a superb fleet with some very fine officers but flexibility in response to change is not a strong point.

However, to be positive, they have some very fine training officers and any newcomer would be advised to give them a look.

View Poll Results: What do you look for in a Sim
Reality Simulated	33	86.84%
Balance	5	13.16%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

09-22-05, 12:08 PM	#1
stormrider_sp Planesman Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 186 Downloads: 51 Uploads: 0	Reality vs Balance I wrote this poll because I noticed that some people (like me) prefer realism in first place, no matter what, and some people prefer the platforms to be balanced. In my opinion, what would balance the game is not the aspect and respect of each platform. I think they should be modelled as close as possible to reality, and the mission designer is the one responsible for the balance. What you guys think?

09-22-05, 03:34 PM	#5
Kapitan Sub Test Pilot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK + Canada Posts: 7,132 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 7	prefer reality rather than a game same as fs2004 __________________ DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/ Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/ Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/

09-23-05, 02:17 AM	#8
Bellman Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,945 Downloads: 220 Uploads: 0	I agree with much that has been said. Given the tools provided by SS its up to the modders and scenario designers to achieve a balance between realism and gameplay providing a 'hook' for a wide spectrum of gamers. Yes ''gamers'' - the military constantly use the term so we should not be scared of it. I would like to see more balance in gameplay by the introduction of 'drivable' Red surfs. Then the prospect of Red v Blue Fleets would get the adrenalin going. If Blues and Reds were formed for MP fleet players could train together, issue challenges or take part in organised 'Wars' It has always been difficult (time zones etc) to bring multi players together but the incentive of team fleet play may be the catalyst. Let existing Fleet members protest that they have this. I regret my experience is that they usually separate functions into divisions and do not train as multi platform teams. PS. Is Kapitain pointing in the right direction by establishing a Red Fleet ? __________________ Liberty, Equality, Fraternity

09-23-05, 07:28 PM	#13
JoGary(sco) A-ganger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Loch lomand, Scotland Posts: 71 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I recon Bellman was problebly talking about the Seawolves when he said they devide up in to diferent devisions. That is true as we are now. But in very near future we will be playing all platforms in one devision. The SSN devision. We are just in progress of making report pages and scoring system for all platform. Also our ROE will be changed to accomidate all platforms. I recon it we will be playing all platforms in the SSN devision by Christmas if not earlier. The Seawolves have the biggest DW comunity of any online fleet so thair is no prob finding a game either. We have training for those that want it and with our ROE there is little chance of playing cheats. Unlike HL :rotfl: I currently have over 100 contacts in my ICQ and 90% of those are Seawolves who play DW. LT JoGary RDDN-SSN16thFOO/TO http://seawolves.org/ssn/ __________________ Joseph,Gary Winters jgw28@blueyonder.co.uk ICQ : 259-346-534 http://seawolves.org

09-22-05, 12:45 PM	#2
OKO Commander Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Solar system, mainly on earth Posts: 476 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	I think it's a bad question Stormrider realism doesn't mean unbalanced the best prove is with the new MOD As it give more realism, it also balance the game much more than before. So your question is bit distorted But I totally agree about the mission designer

09-22-05, 02:11 PM	#3
stormrider_sp Planesman Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 186 Downloads: 51 Uploads: 0	This question came in to my mind while I was reading another topic, regarding the PerryÂ´s cavitation chart. Someone said that he believes that it cavitated at 10knots but to balance things, he suggested the speed of 8knots. I asked to myself, why?

09-22-05, 02:59 PM	#4
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	That's a bad question. Realism and balance, first of all, are rarely mutually exclusive. And when they are, it's not a one or the other question. Both of these elements are VERY important in a good sim game, and have to be measured on a sliding scale.

09-22-05, 06:38 PM	#7
darksythe Lieutenant Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 269 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Balance in DW with the mod by LWAMI comes from the skipper at the helm. Not the platform he is commanding. :\|\

09-23-05, 11:42 AM	#9
darksythe Lieutenant Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 269 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	The VMC navy is at this exact time to doing exactly what you are talking about. We have for years had a aprimarily american fleet based out ot Fleet Command / Subcommand. (Not to mention the non naval platforms) We are now running Dangerous Waters and it is under the new platform that The red fleet of Kapitans you are talking about sails. I encourage each and every one of you here that wants to have the opportunity that bellman refers to to come on over to the VMC navy and check things out. It could very easily become your new home.

09-23-05, 11:44 AM	#10
darksythe Lieutenant Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 269 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	forgot the url.... www.vmcnavy.net

09-23-05, 02:04 PM	#11
Nikita Electrician's Mate Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Under the sea Posts: 140 Downloads: 119 Uploads: 0	Well, we'll never know how real a sim is 'cause is restricted information. Just get an approximate feeling of what could be IMHO.

09-23-05, 03:29 PM	#12
mike_espo Sonar Guy Join Date: May 2005 Location: Chicago, USA Posts: 396 Downloads: 12 Uploads: 0	Frankly, It would not matter to me if I played MP and lost, as long as the platforms perform realistically and I have a fighting chance...i.e realistic sonar conditions and layers......

09-23-05, 11:49 PM	#14
Bellman Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,945 Downloads: 220 Uploads: 0	Jo thats good news if long overdue - I remember reading proposals for change along these lines a year ago. Now are you taking bets on how long it will take to introduce Blue v Red Fleets/Divisions ? The Seawolves is a superb fleet with some very fine officers but flexibility in response to change is not a strong point. However, to be positive, they have some very fine training officers and any newcomer would be advised to give them a look. __________________ Liberty, Equality, Fraternity