The inevitable returning starforce trouble...

[Jeitme]

Hello. I've been lurking the forums here a long time now, and i've seen lots of threads about starforce, but i've never seen the same problem that i've had.
I preordered sh3, (of course) and the moment it arrived, seconds after i furiously tore open the wrapping i realised it was a dvd-rom only game, and since i didn't sport a healthy dvd drive i was out of luck.. (Silly me).
Of course the next thing i did was run to the store and buy an aopen top shelf dvd-reader/recorder, (approximate prize 150$+ and after the old installing-new-hardware dance i was happily burning out cds and dvds (making space for the game). Then i installed it, and had a ****ing great weekend, with a minimal amount of sleep, and 10 patrols.
Returning to the real life, in a while i noticed that i could not burn cds or dvds of any kind with any imaginable software. Of course i was pissed, and after reading som starforce problem forums i uninstalled the game (boycott) and used the starforce removal tool. No luck. Then i flashed the firmware on my drive. No luck! Then followed the reformat/clean windows install dance. NO LUCK!
I contacted the starforce guys. The suggested the removal tool, and said i should just forget about the game. I told them that i'd already tried. Guess what the next suggestion was? Let me quote them: "I suggest you buy a second system for burning cds and dvds, and keep a separate system for gaming" I told them that that was not an option for me, beeing a student and all. The reply (over support icq) was? You guess it. "Then you're out of luck"!
Starforce physically destroyed my drive!

After a long boycott period i just couldn't keep away from the game anymore, it's too good, but i'm still pissed off that sh3 ended up costing me an additional 100+$...
And the starforce crew? Well i've heard stories about good customer support, but, basically they can kiss my ass.

Here in Norway I think there is a law against bundling unwanted force-installed software with a game. (basically a consumer law saying that you as a customer should recieve only what your paying for), but since i'm no legal wiz, i'm leaving it as it is.
Is there anyone out there who have had the same problems as me? Anyone else contacted the starforce guys about it?

[Gizzmoe]

Originally Posted by Jeitme

Starforce physically destroyed my drive!

After a long boycott period i just couldn't keep away from the game anymore, it's too good, but i'm still pissed off that sh3 ended up costing me an additional 100+$...

What do you mean with "additional 100+$"? Didn´t you return the broken drive? Do you still have problems to burn CD´s/DVD´s with your new drive after installing SF?

[stratege]

When you said aopen, you mean the brand Aopen ??

I had experienced firmware trouble with a isu8484g. I was installing a redhat 3 ES using that reader and a home made dvd ...

My install run fine, but the isu8484g never show up in my automount.

When i finaly switch ( physicaly ) my Hdd back to my winXP system, the isu8484g simply never respond back.

Trying to fix the firmware itself never worked.

Had to RMA it to my dealer ...

The answer from Aopen was that a portion of the flash memory holding the firmware was "defective"


I beleive starforce may have overwritted some part of the firmware data, and you just end up been frezed like me ....



So far, i have received another reader (same model) with a fixed firmware (R1.07) and now, i am running my dual system fine.

[Hitman]

Well I kept an older computer for working (Only need MS Word for that) and burning data & home made films to DVD.

Then I did set up a new computer with good performance for gaming. Of course I did buy a cheap DVD, because I own SH3 and GTR (Bioth with Starforce), so my DVD player is sentenced and will die sooner or later.

But you also have the alternative to have in your PC a DVD-RW and also a cheap DVD. Make your primary drive be the cheap DVD (I buyed one for 20$ recently) and let it die whenever Starforce kills it, then replace it. I believe that Starforce tends to kill easier rewriting units, while simple read-only devices last much longer.

[TDK1044]

SF seems to interact very differently with different systems and devices. I have a CD burner and two DVD burners on my system, and the only effect SF has is to reduce burn speed on all three devices by 50 percent. So I simply use the uninstall tool prior to a burn, and I can then burn at 100 percent. SF then reinstalls itself when I next open SH3. By all accounts, I'm one of the lucky ones!

[capt-jones]

:hmm: yep i think s***farce toasted my DVD player the other night,luckily i was given another DVD player , but i dont think buying new DVD' players is the answer surely if "STARFORCE IS FRYING THESE DVD' players"THEY MUST BE UNDER SOME OBLIGATION TOO REMEDY THIS :rotfl: I will scuttle my sub ,before i buy another dvd player or even SH4 if it ever comes out with starf**t installed on it,it seems the are a lot of software company's have already dumped them, so come on UBI wise up and wake up

[Mowgli]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

SF seems to interact very differently with different systems and devices. I have a CD burner and two DVD burners on my system, and the only effect SF has is to reduce burn speed on all three devices by 50 percent. So I simply use the uninstall tool prior to a burn, and I can then burn at 100 percent. SF then reinstalls itself when I next open SH3. By all accounts, I'm one of the lucky ones!

Would you pleased if you bought a new set of dangling dice for your car and the only effect they had was to reduce the cars speed by 50%?

And your one of the lucky ones?

[CB..]

it is bizaare what passes for lucky these days
i'm lucky-- only 30% of the games i've bought with starforce have failed to run after the obligatory SF restart--

i agree with Hitman --- it's my guess that every time i install and run a starforce game i reduce the life span of my DVD player significantly

very strange forms of luck were having to rely on these days-- :hmm:

perhaps it's all some sort of hardcore realism mod ---every SF game comes with the continued risk of damaging your computer during every patrol/mission/play thru--- now that's hard-core

beam me up Scotty

[Col7777]

You are right CB, very bizarre.

SF does seem to ruin a lot of people's DVD-RW drives, if not straight away then after a period of time.

Can you imagine then if a software advertised something in small print like this:

WARNING! After a period of time you will need a new CD or DVD drive because this program includes another program that you have no option but to install will ruin your drive.
You may have problems straight away in which case you will have wasted your money on this software, if you are successful and the program does run then make the best of it because it might not run for much longer, unless of course you keep buying new CD or DVD drives. Good luck and thank you for purchasing our program.

[CB..]

Col; that warning or some-thing like it should be compulsory on the packaging of SF games

perhaps SF have cut a deal with the DVD drive manufactures---now that the graphics card race has slowed down a bit ( a new graphics card might actually last you a year these days !!!) they need us to be spending our money on something else....seems this year it's going to be re-placment DVD drives--

[cunnutazzo]

please give a look here:
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopi...ight=starforce

[CB..]

usual storys--
sooner or later the dvd supplies/manufactures are going to get (in contradiction to my other point lol) a little bit fed up of replacing broken DVD drives and covering StarForces lack of consumer protection

why should the DVD manufactures continue paying for the damage caused to their products by incompatible copy right protection software?

may be what finally brings the strangness to a head might be that the DVD companys go direct to Starfoce and demand clarification of exactly why their product is being damaged by SF's protection software--

and why the DVD companys should shoulder the cost of replacing these drives when there is no evidence that they were in fact faulty (prior to the instalation of SF software) in the first place---

when the DVD manufactures finally wise up to what going on; that's when all the techno babble consumers are getting landed with will end and SF will have to test their product properly on all the major DVD manufacturers in order to prove their stance that SF does not harm any DVD hardware/software---

or maybe the whole industry has decided that the fact that SF is (perhaps?) effective in reducing piracy balances out any customer ill-will/ loss of confidence and even the DVD manufacturers have caved in and are prepared to stand the brunt of the losses due to replacing broken DVD drives under warranty in spite of the probability that it isn't their product that's at fault---

after all they can't be ignorant of what's going on surely?

mean time games sales must surely be suffering? even if only by a fraction?---

i'm not quite egotistical enough (lol) to believe im completely unique and i've lost all desire to buy new games --i keep walking past the games shelves in my local supermarket with money in my pocket--i glance at the titles and think --what's the point? where-as in the past i've lost count of the number of games i've bought just to see if they're any good or not--as i say i doubt if i'm unique in this feeling --statisticly speaking it's impossible!! ==ie ;the percentage of my disposable income i actually spend on games recently has shrunk to virtually nil---in spite of the fact that i've just up-graded to a "uber" computer in order to play the dang things lol!!! i want to buy the dang things---but my new PC isn't going to be much use with a knackered dvd drive--and lets face it 99% of games are not worth the risk!!

it's games i'm considering buying-it's supposed to be fun!!
SF has changed my entire attitude towards the whole thing--
i can't help thinking the cure (in this case) is worse than the disease---

[Mowgli]

Go vist their fourms http://star-force.com/forum/viewforu...4d73d28a3a2082

Breath taking arrogance and total unconcern for the mayhem they have caused.

Their recommendations are:-

No external dvds.
No monitoring of your registry.
If you want to play games then have a separate machine with no r/w.
If you have a problem take it up with UBI and not them.

Uninstall starforce, copy your photoes to dvd, reinstall starforce, play game (eventually) after several reboots.
With regards to physical damage of kit - prove it in court.

Apparently the 643,000 hits generated by a search on google for Starforce problems is because of a few people spreading false rumours.

[TDK1044]

Has anyone asked Ubisoft if SF or something like it will be included with SH4? They are clearly aware of the problems associated with this software. It's a "yes" or "no" answer from their point of view. A refusal to answer would be a "yes" in my view. Based on their answer, people can then decide if they wish to purchase SH4 or not. Although I don't like SF, I've been running this game just about every day since it came out and burning CDs and DVDs with no problems, if I just take 30 seconds to uninstall the SF Drivers before a burn. Mowgli's point is well made and to some degree he's correct, but to me, as long as there is no actual damage being done to my drives, and I see no evidence of that at all, it's no different to having a conflict between two loaded applications that interfere with each other. You make a cosmetic alteration to allow both applications to run. That's what I mean by being one of the lucky ones. I wonder how many of the folks who blame Starforce for everything wrong with their system, are actually savvy enough to know what is a Starforece related issue and what isn't. Some of the posts I've read here suggest that while SF has caused real problems for some people, it has also been the greatest patsy since Lee Harvey Oswald.

[Gizzmoe]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

Some of the posts I've read here suggest that while SF has caused real problems for some people, it has also been the greatest patsy since Lee Harvey Oswald.

Well said...