neutrals convoying with hostile... kinda dumb

Twitch · 08-25-05, 01:17 PM

so i ran across a convoy, designated as hostile... target 2 ships within it.. sunk them... and they were both neutral..

whats the deal with this?

I mean... i know some nations are neutral, but if a "neutral" ship is traveling with hostile ones, is under the protection of hostile war ships.. is it really neutral??

seems to me it would be fair game..

Wolfram · 08-25-05, 01:23 PM

Yup the penalty or loss in reputation is a pain in the

But the concept is not to shoot them - target id is a classic challenge for a Uboat commander...

jasonb885 · 08-25-05, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twitch

so i ran across a convoy, designated as hostile... target 2 ships within it.. sunk them... and they were both neutral..

whats the deal with this?

I mean... i know some nations are neutral, but if a "neutral" ship is traveling with hostile ones, is under the protection of hostile war ships.. is it really neutral??

seems to me it would be fair game..

Historically it was fair game.

The SH3 implementation is incorrect.

I toyed with having new nations that simply represent the originals, but with the enemy flag toggled on, but I've been too lazy to bother.

Wolfram · 08-25-05, 01:25 PM

BTW search the forum I think someone can comment on how to change the file so no rep is lost....

g/l

Charos · 08-25-05, 04:54 PM

According to the Prize laws a Neutral Flaged ship is considered Hostile if:

#1 It does not stop to allow a search of Cargo for War materials.

#2 After making contact It radio's for help.

#3 If its Neutral and Fails to do either #1 or #2 above and is less than 15 Deg West (Later 20Deg West) then its fair Game.

#4 The above does NOT apply to passanger liners but does to Auxillery ships.

#5 ANY Neutral ship protected by Hostile warships is to be also treated as Hostile and sunk accordingly.

SH3 the Game rather than SH3 the Simulation which is what I wanted to buy should adhere to the above.

PS: Does anyone know if RUB addresses this issue of Rep loss for neutral sinkings?

Hopefully SH4 has more Focus on Brains than a full wardrobe and makeup kit.

iambecomelife · 08-25-05, 07:30 PM

I changed my basic.cfg file to this:

[RENOWN]
RenownReachGridObjCompleted=500
RenownPatrolGridObjCompleted=200
CompletedPatrol=100
NEUTRAL=.25
ALLIED=1
AXIS=-10
WrongShipSunk=-5000
FirstRankRenown=1000
SecondRankRenown=3500
EndCampaign=-5000

Note that neutrals are now positive renown. Unfortunately you'll need to manually change this for different time periods (to represent Hitler's increasing or decreasing fear of antagonizing neutral countries).

Adam Bailey · 08-25-05, 09:52 PM

In the book Torpedo Junction, it recounts many attacks by Uboats on neutral shipping off the American coast, some purportedly well lit and marked as being such...

My guess... by 1942, if it floats, sink it.

Adam

Wolfram · 08-25-05, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iambecomelife

I changed my basic.cfg file to this:

[RENOWN]
RenownReachGridObjCompleted=500
RenownPatrolGridObjCompleted=200
CompletedPatrol=100
NEUTRAL=.25
ALLIED=1
AXIS=-10
WrongShipSunk=-5000
FirstRankRenown=1000
SecondRankRenown=3500
EndCampaign=-5000

Note that neutrals are now positive renown. Unfortunately you'll need to manually change this for different time periods (to represent Hitler's increasing or decreasing fear of antagonizing neutral countries).

Thanks I knew this subject was addressed regarding the file changes.

monkee · 08-26-05, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Bailey

In the book Torpedo Junction, it recounts many attacks by Uboats on neutral shipping off the American coast, some purportedly well lit and marked as being such...

My guess... by 1942, if it floats, sink it.

Adam

I encountered a convoy near Halifax. 18 ships and only one neutral. It was a Brazilian merchant.

Damo1977 · 08-26-05, 01:40 AM

I have read somewhere, that USA ships in convoys were there for a kind of protection. Because they thought the Germans wouldn't attack in fear of hitting USA ships. But also they were kinda of hoping the Germans would attack and hit USA ships, so public opinion would swing to war with Germany. Remember alot of the Americanpublic didn't want a repeat of the carnage for their soldiers like in WW1. Which I must say is fair enough!!!!But in the end it didn't matter because well you know the story.........

spritz · 08-26-05, 08:26 AM

i just ran into a medium convoy at AM53 , escorted by one mere VW DD, after i sank it ,i turned to take care of the cargo ships.
I shot all of my torps and when i surfaced to make some shooting practice the neutral (US) ships opened fire on me together with the Brits.
I didn't sink any of the US ships at this patrol and they still considered as neutrals , even when the were shooting at me (some hits too).

Kpt. Lehmann · 08-26-05, 08:49 AM

...Well, it may be appropriate to change the neutrals' renown value in the basic cfg to zero in order to reflect the ambiguity of sinking such ships.

...Especially since SH3 doesn't affect the outcome of the war or any events therein. (Which is good IMHO... I don't think most ppl here have the intent to be historical revisionists.)

akula_krieg · 08-26-05, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

...Especially since SH3 doesn't affect the outcome of the war or any events therein. (Which is good IMHO... I don't think most ppl here have the intent to be historical revisionists.)

With several dozen kaleuns on this board wiping out 100,000 + tons of tonnage every patrol, we've won the war about ten times over by now...

-akula-

08-25-05, 07:30 PM	#6
iambecomelife Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 4,706 Downloads: 300 Uploads: 0	I changed my basic.cfg file to this: [RENOWN] RenownReachGridObjCompleted=500 RenownPatrolGridObjCompleted=200 CompletedPatrol=100 NEUTRAL=.25 ALLIED=1 AXIS=-10 WrongShipSunk=-5000 FirstRankRenown=1000 SecondRankRenown=3500 EndCampaign=-5000 Note that neutrals are now positive renown. Unfortunately you'll need to manually change this for different time periods (to represent Hitler's increasing or decreasing fear of antagonizing neutral countries). __________________ https://www.facebook.com/WolvesoftheKaiser/

08-26-05, 01:40 AM	#10
Damo1977 Captain Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Posts: 487 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I have read somewhere, that USA ships in convoys were there for a kind of protection. Because they thought the Germans wouldn't attack in fear of hitting USA ships. But also they were kinda of hoping the Germans would attack and hit USA ships, so public opinion would swing to war with Germany. Remember alot of the Americanpublic didn't want a repeat of the carnage for their soldiers like in WW1. Which I must say is fair enough!!!!But in the end it didn't matter because well you know the story......... __________________ \"If man is called to be to be a streetsweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and earth will pause to say, here lived a great streetsweeper who did his job well\" Martin Luther King, Jr

08-26-05, 08:49 AM	#12
Kpt. Lehmann GWX Project Director Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The Republic of Texas Posts: 6,993 Downloads: 124 Uploads: 0	...Well, it may be appropriate to change the neutrals' renown value in the basic cfg to zero in order to reflect the ambiguity of sinking such ships. ...Especially since SH3 doesn't affect the outcome of the war or any events therein. (Which is good IMHO... I don't think most ppl here have the intent to be historical revisionists.) __________________ www.thegreywolves.com All you need is good men. - Heinrich Lehmann-Willenbrock

08-25-05, 01:17 PM	#1
Twitch Sailor man Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 47 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	neutrals convoying with hostile... kinda dumb so i ran across a convoy, designated as hostile... target 2 ships within it.. sunk them... and they were both neutral.. whats the deal with this? I mean... i know some nations are neutral, but if a "neutral" ship is traveling with hostile ones, is under the protection of hostile war ships.. is it really neutral?? seems to me it would be fair game..

08-25-05, 01:23 PM	#2
Wolfram Weps Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: periscope depth Posts: 354 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Yup the penalty or loss in reputation is a pain in the But the concept is not to shoot them - target id is a classic challenge for a Uboat commander...

08-25-05, 01:25 PM	#4
Wolfram Weps Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: periscope depth Posts: 354 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	BTW search the forum I think someone can comment on how to change the file so no rep is lost.... g/l

08-25-05, 04:54 PM	#5
Charos Helmsman Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 109 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	According to the Prize laws a Neutral Flaged ship is considered Hostile if: #1 It does not stop to allow a search of Cargo for War materials. #2 After making contact It radio's for help. #3 If its Neutral and Fails to do either #1 or #2 above and is less than 15 Deg West (Later 20Deg West) then its fair Game. #4 The above does NOT apply to passanger liners but does to Auxillery ships. #5 ANY Neutral ship protected by Hostile warships is to be also treated as Hostile and sunk accordingly. SH3 the Game rather than SH3 the Simulation which is what I wanted to buy should adhere to the above. PS: Does anyone know if RUB addresses this issue of Rep loss for neutral sinkings? Hopefully SH4 has more Focus on Brains than a full wardrobe and makeup kit.

08-25-05, 09:52 PM	#7
Adam Bailey Swabbie Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 13 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	In the book Torpedo Junction, it recounts many attacks by Uboats on neutral shipping off the American coast, some purportedly well lit and marked as being such... My guess... by 1942, if it floats, sink it. Adam

08-26-05, 08:26 AM	#11
spritz Swabbie Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 6 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	i just ran into a medium convoy at AM53 , escorted by one mere VW DD, after i sank it ,i turned to take care of the cargo ships. I shot all of my torps and when i surfaced to make some shooting practice the neutral (US) ships opened fire on me together with the Brits. I didn't sink any of the US ships at this patrol and they still considered as neutrals , even when the were shooting at me (some hits too).