About SS-N-27s and Club-S missiles

Amizaur · 07-17-05, 06:04 PM

Is the SS-N-27 ASM missile intened to be 3M-54E or 3M-54E1 missile ? Because the parameters like mass and range don't match...

3M-54E missile is widely know two-stage subsonic/supersonic ASM. It's heavy (about 2.3-2.5 tons), long (8.2m), but have range of 220km (120nm) and warhead of 200kg. The max speed is said to be 2.9M which is about 1860-1916kts.

3M-54E1 missile is one stage subsonic-only version. But it's shorter (6.2m), lighter (1780kg) and carries twice as large warhead of 400kg.

Supersonic 3M-54E is second from the left, subsonic 3M-54E1 is third from the left.

The data in the USNI description and actual database parameters of the missile are mix of parameters from both missiles. If the missile in game was intended to be two-stage 3M-54E missile, it should be heavier, longer, have shorter range (120nm insteed of 160nm).

The Club missile is said to be 3M-54E and has proper range, but dimensions and mass again looks as taken from 3M-54E1.
(Could someone confirm if the Indian Kilos are being armed with long 3M-54E or short 3M-54E1 variant ? I have found inconsistent data on this...)

BTW the more fundamental question is - how long are Kilo torpedo tubes ?? Can they launch 8.2 meters objects like 3M-54E ? Or maybe only shorter 3M-54E1 variant ? Anyone knows for sure ?

The mass and length differences could be explained if they refers to missile in flight, without the booster. But length difference of 2m is too large to account for booster (it's about 1m long) and overall this data looks rather like taken from 3M-54E1. The too long range of SS-N-27 can't be explained other than by fact it was taken from 3M-54E1. The SS-N-27 3D model also doesn't match, it's looks rather similar to 3M-54E1 subsonic missile (and was borrowed from Tomahawk probably, strange because models of other Russian missiles, especially the Shipwreck, are individual and very good). The SS-N-27 ASW 3D moded painted white would be much better.

If the missiles were supposed to be two-stage 3M-54E missile, please check again it's parameters. Mass and lenght are not very important but the weapon range rather is. 3M-54E have max range of 220km cited in all sources, and it's range of both stages. Minimum range is 20km.
Also 3D model could be taken from ASW variant rather than from Tomahawk.

Also to avoid the SS-N-27 range bug, the missile should be changed to two-stage construction (like SUBROCs) but this is another story.

Best page about SS-N-27 family I've found:

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Klub.html

Please add your link if you know another good sources.

TLAM Strike · 07-17-05, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amizaur

BTW the more fundamental question is - how long are Kilo torpedo tubes ?? Can they launch 8.2 meters objects like 3M-54E ? Or maybe only shorter 3M-54E1 variant ? Anyone knows for sure ?

The biggiest fish the Kilo can fire is about 7.8 m and the VA-111 (if they can fire them which I think so) are 8.2 m long.

MaHuJa · 07-18-05, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

The biggiest fish the Kilo can fire is about 7.8 m and the VA-111 (if they can fire them which I think so) are 8.2 m long.

The Shkval is not on the kilos in DW.

(VA-111 is the shkval, right?)

Amizaur · 07-18-05, 01:56 PM

Well I didn't hear about Shkvals launched from Kilos :hmm:
Anyone else have info about Kilo (and Russian SSNs too) torpedo tube length ? Kapitain maybe ?

Just checked the SC 1.8 and was surprised to see that only subsonic version of SS-N-27 was launched from subs there. Only in SCX were changed to supersonic ones.

TLAM Strike · 07-18-05, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaHuJa

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

The biggiest fish the Kilo can fire is about 7.8 m and the VA-111 (if they can fire them which I think so) are 8.2 m long.

The Shkval is not on the kilos in DW.

(VA-111 is the shkval, right?)

In DW it isn't equiped but the Iranian's and PRC have purchased Shkvals and Iran only has Kilos and the PRC's best non-nuc is the Kilo so it makes sense that they can carry them.

Kapitan · 07-18-05, 03:28 PM

no the kilo cant load out a skhval not equiped to do so iran has not purchase submarine launched versions of the skhval and its highly unlikely that the skhval is up for export

as for SS-N-27 some updated kilos can now carry them this is why india has sent most of thier or going to send most of thier kilos back to russia so they can then load out these weapons same with china and iran algeria and poland have no such wish

Amizaur · 07-18-05, 05:25 PM

Do you think they lengthened Kilo torpedo tubes during the upgrade ?
Do you know or maybe could find info what is the length of torpedo tubes on standard Kilos 877E and what on Russian SSNs ? (Akula, VictorIII)

Kapitan · 07-18-05, 06:47 PM

il have a look cant promise anything but i got some diagrammes that may help

Kapitan · 07-18-05, 06:47 PM

il have a look cant promise anything but i got some diagrammes that may help

07-17-05, 06:04 PM	#1
Amizaur Sonar Guy Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Poland Posts: 398 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	About SS-N-27s and Club-S missiles Is the SS-N-27 ASM missile intened to be 3M-54E or 3M-54E1 missile ? Because the parameters like mass and range don't match... 3M-54E missile is widely know two-stage subsonic/supersonic ASM. It's heavy (about 2.3-2.5 tons), long (8.2m), but have range of 220km (120nm) and warhead of 200kg. The max speed is said to be 2.9M which is about 1860-1916kts. 3M-54E1 missile is one stage subsonic-only version. But it's shorter (6.2m), lighter (1780kg) and carries twice as large warhead of 400kg. Supersonic 3M-54E is second from the left, subsonic 3M-54E1 is third from the left. The data in the USNI description and actual database parameters of the missile are mix of parameters from both missiles. If the missile in game was intended to be two-stage 3M-54E missile, it should be heavier, longer, have shorter range (120nm insteed of 160nm). The Club missile is said to be 3M-54E and has proper range, but dimensions and mass again looks as taken from 3M-54E1. (Could someone confirm if the Indian Kilos are being armed with long 3M-54E or short 3M-54E1 variant ? I have found inconsistent data on this...) BTW the more fundamental question is - how long are Kilo torpedo tubes ?? Can they launch 8.2 meters objects like 3M-54E ? Or maybe only shorter 3M-54E1 variant ? Anyone knows for sure ? The mass and length differences could be explained if they refers to missile in flight, without the booster. But length difference of 2m is too large to account for booster (it's about 1m long) and overall this data looks rather like taken from 3M-54E1. The too long range of SS-N-27 can't be explained other than by fact it was taken from 3M-54E1. The SS-N-27 3D model also doesn't match, it's looks rather similar to 3M-54E1 subsonic missile (and was borrowed from Tomahawk probably, strange because models of other Russian missiles, especially the Shipwreck, are individual and very good). The SS-N-27 ASW 3D moded painted white would be much better. If the missiles were supposed to be two-stage 3M-54E missile, please check again it's parameters. Mass and lenght are not very important but the weapon range rather is. 3M-54E have max range of 220km cited in all sources, and it's range of both stages. Minimum range is 20km. Also 3D model could be taken from ASW variant rather than from Tomahawk. Also to avoid the SS-N-27 range bug, the missile should be changed to two-stage construction (like SUBROCs) but this is another story. Best page about SS-N-27 family I've found: http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Klub.html Please add your link if you know another good sources.

07-18-05, 03:28 PM	#6
Kapitan Sub Test Pilot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK + Canada Posts: 7,130 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 7	no the kilo cant load out a skhval not equiped to do so iran has not purchase submarine launched versions of the skhval and its highly unlikely that the skhval is up for export as for SS-N-27 some updated kilos can now carry them this is why india has sent most of thier or going to send most of thier kilos back to russia so they can then load out these weapons same with china and iran algeria and poland have no such wish __________________ DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/ Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/ Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/

07-18-05, 06:47 PM	#8
Kapitan Sub Test Pilot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK + Canada Posts: 7,130 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 7	il have a look cant promise anything but i got some diagrammes that may help __________________ DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/ Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/ Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/

07-18-05, 06:47 PM	#9
Kapitan Sub Test Pilot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK + Canada Posts: 7,130 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 7	il have a look cant promise anything but i got some diagrammes that may help __________________ DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/ Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/ Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/

07-18-05, 01:56 PM	#4
Amizaur Sonar Guy Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Poland Posts: 398 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Well I didn't hear about Shkvals launched from Kilos :hmm: Anyone else have info about Kilo (and Russian SSNs too) torpedo tube length ? Kapitain maybe ? Just checked the SC 1.8 and was surprised to see that only subsonic version of SS-N-27 was launched from subs there. Only in SCX were changed to supersonic ones.

07-18-05, 05:25 PM	#7
Amizaur Sonar Guy Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Poland Posts: 398 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Do you think they lengthened Kilo torpedo tubes during the upgrade ? Do you know or maybe could find info what is the length of torpedo tubes on standard Kilos 877E and what on Russian SSNs ? (Akula, VictorIII)