Editing S-boat files to remove the TBT

[WinterMute]

Hi,

I thought about editing some config files to remove the TBT from the S-boat bridge, since it was not equipped with one AFAIK (nor the TDC?). I expected to find the right entry in one of files in ...\SH4\Data\Submarine\NSS_s18 (.dsd file looks the most promising) but can't fine any node with a matching name.

Anyone knows if this is doable and if yes - how?

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by WinterMute

Hi,

I thought about editing some config files to remove the TBT from the S-boat bridge, since it was not equipped with one AFAIK (nor the TDC?). I expected to find the right entry in one of files in ...\SH4\Data\Submarine\NSS_s18 (.dsd file looks the most promising) but can't fine any node with a matching name.

Anyone knows if this is doable and if yes - how?

Interesting. I've always planned to do so as well, from fleet boats as well in early war as my understanding is TBT's did not appear on US boats until late 42, early 1943. (could be wrong, going on memory)

Are you running stock game or with mods, if so which mods? TMO, FOTRs, RFB etc?

This is from TMO;

Data/UPCData/UPCUnitData/Unitparts4SClass


[UnitPart 1.Compartment 1.EquipmentSlot 7]
ID= DeckInstruments
NameDisplayable= Deck Attack Station
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes= NULL
UserCustomizable=No
IDLinkEquipmentIntervalDefault1= NULL, NULL, TBT
ExternalNodeName3D= O04
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D= -1



I have never tested removing the TBT yet as said, but this is a start.


Hope this helps.

[WinterMute]

Dang, this was not only super fast but spot on! Thank you very much.

I use RFB, in RFB it's EquipmentSlot 8 but that's the only difference. I simply deleted it, renamed the remaining EquipmentSlot 9 to EquipmentSlot 8 just in case and voila. The TBT is gone and pressing the U key does not work anymore.

EDIT: This change does not propagate to saved games though. There are two ActiveUserPlayerUnits.upc files in the save game folder that have TBT node but I edited both of them out and yet it still sits on the bridge after loading.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by WinterMute

Dang, this was not only super fast but spot on! Thank you very much.

I use RFB, in RFB it's EquipmentSlot 8 but that's the only difference. I simply deleted it, renamed the remaining EquipmentSlot 9 to EquipmentSlot 8 just in case and voila. The TBT is gone and pressing the U key does not work anymore.

EDIT: This change does not propagate to saved games though. There are two ActiveUserPlayerUnits.upc files in the save game folder that have TBT node but I edited both of them out and yet it still sits on the bridge after loading.

Very nice!. I will try it out on fleet boats as well. Now, the only problem is how to aim and fire torpedoes on surface prior to introduction of TBT in the sim.

While TBT's and night surface attacks were not standard for US subs until 43, they could and on occasion did have to fire torpedoes while surfaced as have read in various patrol reports. Of course, they could verbally relay information down to the TDC officer. In SH 4 manual I recall reading was available from beginning of the war in the sim for that purpose.

I suppose can raise the periscope and use it while surfaced.

Or using the sonar stack, can input the firing bearing but training it to the correct bearing. then hit the send to TDC button.

Wonder if deleting the visible object on bridge is possible, but the U ket still presenting a targeting reticle, as if player is using binoculars.

Glad I could help

[WinterMute]

Don't leave so fast sensei!

Now do you think the TDC can be removed somehow too? I don't think it was installed on S-boats either. The TDC uses the same tab as Torpedo Settings, so my guess is you can't, but maybe the right tab can be disabled or removed somehow?

Not that it is somehow stopping me from not using it but on one occasion I managed to accidentally set torpedo gyro angle by measuring the distance with the periscope.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by WinterMute

Don't leave so fast sensei!

Now do you think the TDC can be removed somehow too? I don't think it was installed on S-boats either. The TDC uses the same tab as Torpedo Settings, so my guess is you can't, but maybe the right tab can be disabled or removed somehow?

Not that it is somehow stopping me from not using it but on one occasion I managed to accidentally set torpedo gyro angle by measuring the distance with the periscope.

Hmm, well...

No, not really. Pretty sure TDC is a hardcoded thing. However.....


(There is no 3D TDC model in the interior of SBOAT correct? )


What can be and is a WIP by another subsimmer is modification of the TDC into an IS/WAS used by boats without TDC and as backup to TDC, for Sboats in SH4..see link below.


https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=258532

[WinterMute]

WIP by another subsimmer is modification of the TDC into an IS/WAS

Oh Jeez, this will be sweet. Hope for a full release soon.

There is no 3D TDC model in the interior of SBOAT correct?

No, there is not, that's why I use some basic trigonometry. Way easier than I expected for your typical encounters.

But speaking of equipment models I also started to wonder about radar stations. They should not be there until a corresponding radar is installed. I can see in .upc files that both consoles are defined separately, which is good. Can't find such a config file for the interior as the one for conning towers that you pointed me to earlier though. I wonder if these models could be removed from the interior too and then added via an upgrade at the same moment a radar model is added to the sub. Would make way more sense.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by WinterMute

Oh Jeez, this will be sweet. Hope for a full release soon.



No, there is not, that's why I use some basic trigonometry. Way easier than I expected for your typical encounters.

But speaking of equipment models I also started to wonder about radar stations. They should not be there until a corresponding radar is installed. I can see in .upc files that both consoles are defined separately, which is good. Can't find such a config file for the interior as the one for conning towers that you pointed me to earlier though. I wonder if these models could be removed from the interior too and then added via an upgrade at the same moment a radar model is added to the sub. Would make way more sense.

Yes, believe it will bring S-Boats to a new level, especially with having full interiors available now from vickers for Sboats (fleetboats are WIP).

I believe someone has tried removing the radar cabinet until SJ installed long ago, did not work. One would think there is way.

Huge oversight by the devs, when subs were given radar, cabinet should have been part of the upgrade.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Yes, believe it will bring S-Boats to a new level, especially with having full interiors available now from vickers for Sboats (fleetboats are WIP).

I believe someone has tried removing the radar cabinet until SJ installed long ago, did not work. One would think there is way.

Huge oversight by the devs, when subs were given radar, cabinet should have been part of the upgrade.

this question reminds me of a comedian named Ray Johnson, as the answer is multi-faceted.


TBT can be dated in the following files:


UnitParts4SClass.upc
Equipment.upc


it may also be configurable in .sns or .eqp files. not sure at this moment but will check when i get home.

[WinterMute]

Huge oversight by the devs, when subs were given radar, cabinet should have been part of the upgrade.

I might be mistaken but having looked around the interior a bit I think the interiors have pre-rendered shadows. With missing equipment these would look out of place, so maybe this was the reason for not customizable interiors.

And I noticed that both radar consols get highlighted as one (including some wall mounted equipment on the wall above them), so it's probably a single model but still it has to be a separate model. Which means it should be possible to get rid of it via config files of some sort...

[Rinaldi]

Originally Posted by WinterMute

I might be mistaken but having looked around the interior a bit I think the interiors have pre-rendered shadows. With missing equipment these would look out of place, so maybe this was the reason for not customizable interiors.

And I noticed that both radar consols get highlighted as one (including some wall mounted equipment on the wall above them), so it's probably a single model but still it has to be a separate model. Which means it should be possible to get rid of it via config files of some sort...

My impression was a lot of the interiors were pre-baked too, as you say, probably why they looked so very impressive for 2007.

My understanding was the consoles were supposed to be covered by a tarp before SJ was issued, but that got lost in a development crunch, I imagine. It's a shame, my heart goes out to the Romanian dev team, I doubt they got anything approaching the proportionate funding and time needed to make these games, and a developer/publisher who wanted to cash in on a beloved SSI intellectual property.

I'm not sure the cabinet can actually be visually removed. Nor the TDC, unfortunately. The latter bit really limits what modders can do to impose limitations for S-boats, most British submarines, Soviets etc. I think, in this regard, how much of a simulation your experience is will be a result of how much you want to handicap yourself, and play by the 'rules' you may set.

Something like this (which is a great read, btw): https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=220579

[ElCid97]

Originally Posted by WinterMute

Oh Jeez, this will be sweet. Hope for a full release soon.

Getting there!

It's really more of a "display" than a mod, since it basically changes the graphics for the stuff you would normally see using the images of the Is-Was from Hitman's PDF file available here in our download section.

Simply put, it's just an interface change for the dials and info you would normally have with the regular TDC.

The PK is now labeled as "Tracking Party" as an example. Instead of seeing a light turn on or off, you now have a chalk-board that says either "On Duty" or "Off Duty", as applicable.

The dials I didn't need I just replaced with transparencies so you just get the text to pop-up from the default dials without actually seeing them. You just hover over the area where they are placed as "place-holder" locations.

Hopefully should have something for BH to test this weekend, but we'll see.

Time ... just need some more time.

Saludos!

ElCid97

[ElCid97]

For anyone interested, BH has the Beta for the Is-Was as well as the Lawrence Slideruler.

The Is-Was has an option for an "S-Boat" themed start screen. Not needed to run the mod, but looks nice.

If you are interested, just drop him or me a msg and either of us can get you the 7z for testing.

Saludos!

ElCid97

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by ElCid97

For anyone interested, BH has the Beta for the Is-Was as well as the Lawrence Slideruler.

The Is-Was has an option for an "S-Boat" themed start screen. Not needed to run the mod, but looks nice.

If you are interested, just drop him or me a msg and either of us can get you the 7z for testing.

Saludos!

ElCid97

can the new mod be used with auto-targeting?

[ElCid97]

Hmm ...

Don't see why not?

After all, the "mod" is actually the proverbial "lipstick on a pig" with regards to the TDC/PK that's default.

All I did was move things around and change graphics to get something that "looks" and "acts" like an Is-Was, but in reality is just the default stuff.

If you want, either BH or me can send you the 7z file and you can check it out to see if it runs with your particular set-up. I know everyone has a different set of mods in their list, so it would be interesting to see how many different combinations this can work with.

Saludos!

ElCid97