Your life, your choice

[mapuc]

In 2018 a Danish doctor got 60 days conditionally for having helped Danes committing suicide. He had given advise to people over the phone.

https://wfrtds.org/danish-physician-...isted-suicide/

This wasn't the end of it, despite this verdict he has continued to give advise on how to commit suicide to people over the phone.

The police in Second biggest city Odense have therefore open a case against this doctor Svend lings.

I'm divided in this.

Markus

[Platapus]

I think that every adult has the right to self-determination.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Platapus

I think that every adult has the right to self-determination.

One part of me agree with you.
The other half disagree

A person should seek every opportunity to find a solution to their physical, mental problems before choosing self-determination.

Going a little to the religious side-It's also a sin to take it's own life.

I am as mentioned very divided in this question.

Markus

[Arlo]

I'm of the mind that one should deeply consider if their actions are really 'just affecting themself.' That being said, one might also consider whether the surviving friends and relatives are compassionate enough to be supportive if their suffering loved one cannot attain relief. It's a hard nut to crack and every case is unique.

[Skybird]

For yourself you can decide whatever you want, Markus. But even ethics and religion and other ideology turn into tyranny and oppression where they are turned into an excuse to impose one's own will onto somebody else who wants it not.



Deciding for oneself how one wants one's own life to end is the penultimate expression of freedom and self-determination. Denying that, is denying human dignity.



One just has no right to harm others in practicing suicide. Shooting a bullet through one's head is - well, "okay". Throwing oneself before a train and bringing the train driver into a state of shock, psychic stress and suffering and feelings of guilt, is not.



All life is suffering. Because all life and all things are temporary only, and ever changing: panta rhei. All things are impermanent, and impermanence is suffering. But we do not suffer because things are perishable, but because we cling to the ephemeral while expecting it to remain. Thus we get disappointed every time, and frustrated. In other words, we don't suffer because things are wrong, but because we are wrong.


I tend to a thinking of that living means to learn how to leave, because we must say goodbye to things and situations and loved ones all the time, all life long. What came together, must go apart, what was build, will fall. I think we cannot live well if we allow to be scared all the time by the fact that one day we must die. In other words: learning to accept death and how to die well teaches us to live well.



When I taught meditation for quite soem years, and I mean spiritual meditation, not just psychological relaxation games as they are common in my former profession, I focussed a lot on these things. I kept telling people what my master once, in my youth, kept telling me: meditation is a matter of life and death. Those who fear, go lost. Those who take emptiness as the goal, go lost as well. And those who stay in a state of mental void and take it as an enlightenment and Nirvana, get drowsy and fall asleep. Its the big, wide open bear trap.



The importance of not being phobic about death and dying, was understood in the past by many cultures, and many of them had so-called Books of the Dead. The Egyptians had that, famous is the Tibetan one (Bardo Thödol), and even Europe once had something like that, but it got lost in the darkness of history, unfortunately, the church also may have had a hand in helping that. These books say a lot about the nature of different stages of the dying process, and about death. But by that, in reality they are books on life.



Good for those who understood that.

[mapuc]

Thank you for your answer.

It's not that easy as some may think. I'll use Arlo's last sentence as it says it all
"It's a hard nut to crack and every case is unique"

I'm not an expert on why people chose to end their life. I only hope they have tried everything possible before this dreadful decision.

Markus

[Platapus]

There are various suicide advocacy sites that have some good information if you are interested in that side of the argument.



I don't think there is a universal answer. Each person has to weigh the advantages and disadvantages and make their decision. I do agree that it should be done as to not endanger the health of non-witting bystanders.

[vienna]

Originally Posted by mapuc

...

Going a little to the religious side-It's also a sin to take it's own life.

...

Markus

That's the rub. The religious restraint only really applies if you are a religious person and then only in the context of your particular religion; why should a person, who is not religious or who is of a belief that may in some way accommodate self-termination, be held to the constraints of some one else's beliefs? If one is a catholic, should they also be held to Jewish dogma, or if they are Buddhist, should they conform to Muslim law in all things? One's life, like one's beliefs, is a highly personal matter and both should not be unreasonably interfered with simply because someone else's 'religion' find some aspect unpalatable; if what a person chooses to do has no material effect/affect on another's well-being or physical existence, then what they choose do with their life is their own concern and, if what they choose is outside the law, then they will have to answer for it to the law. I have been lately 'gently' prodded by my physicians to establish some sort of 'end of life direction" plan to guide the doctors on my wishes should I be unable to give directions on my own due to a physical condition; I have no family at all and I have no one close who could act as my proxy for terminal decisions such as how far to take life-preserving efforts if there is little chance of a good outcome; I have already decided I don't want any out of norm or above minimum effort to be taken since my passing will really affect no one but me, and, if there is an afterlife, I would really hate to think efforts were expended on me in a terminal situation that would have been better exerted towards the relief of someone else who was more certain of a good outcome...

I feel the same way about assisted suicide; California has laws allowing assisted suicide and I am in favor of the law; if my physical condition were to deteriorate to a point were it was terminal and my prospects were for prolonged pain and/or the inability to care for my self properly, I would very much entertain the idea of a quick, merciful, and peaceful end over wretched, useless agony, and, again, I would rather have the resources that would have been used to uselessly prolong my life to be used for some who would find them a benefit; think of it as a very humble version of "Greater love hath no man..."...

A long time ago, when I was very young, I was at a cemetery where the tombstones and plaques were inscribed not only with the deceased's vitals, but also their religious affiliations; I noted that one person, a Catholic by their headstone, was buried next to someone with a Star of David on their headstone; I wandered around a bit and found a couple of other denominations represented; having been raised a Catholic and having been taught here was my 'right' religion and all those other 'wrong' religions, I was struck by how equally dead all the people were and by how each of the were as equally 'right' as their cemetery mates were 'wrong'; I also noted how there was only one person in each coffin or urn; death is solitary and there are no 'condominium coffins'; one to a box; now, if you go by the concept of religion, some of those people were very right and some were very wrong in life, but, in the end, all were very dead and their 'correctness' was out of the hands of the living; perhaps we would all be better off if the 'correctness' of our lives as we are living them were also not in the hands of the other's who are living; just live by a simple rule "Do unto others...".., which, if I am not mistaken, is somewhat a God-given directive, as is "The King will reply, truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.”...

I am not religious myself and do not ascribe of any religion and do not have the temerity to presume to know what becomes of us when we shuffle off the mortal coil, so I guess I, like every other body in this world, will find out if I was right or wrong at my end, and, if there is some sort of reckoning at all, I'll be the one to answer for it alone; not a single cleric, shaman, religious leader, or anyone else will be there to answer for my 'transgressions' but me, so I see little need now to be concerned about their, or their acolytes, beliefs about how they feel I should conduct my life, or how I choose to end it...




<O>

[Reece]

Your life, your choice

That's right, if I want to die a horrible death that's up to me!

[mapuc]

Thank you Vienna for your thoughts on suicide and religious belief. I can only say I agree.

Reece if you feel like jumping into a meat grinder with your feet first-Then feel free to do so.

What's important in all this-Is that a person who have decided to commit suicide should try everything before taking this step.

I fully understand people who got a deadly sickness/disease want to end their life, because of the pain or some other things related to their illness.

Markus

[AVGWarhawk]

Terminal illness=self determination.

I have witnessed many with a terminal illness suffer and succumb. The suffering could be prevented.