The real Sophie Scholl (?)

[Skybird]

https://translate.google.com/transla..._12832430.html


She initially raved for the Nazis, and was desinterested in the fate of the Jews during Crystal Night. I did not know that. But "it is often more difficult to recognize a path that has been taken as wrong, to turn around and take the opposite path than to have recognized the right one from the start. At first, both Scholls did not even consider going into resistance against Hitler and his terror regime. Both were at first even staunch National Socialists."

[Aktungbby]

Of collateral interest: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Hartnagel

Hartnagel surrendered to U.S. troops in Halle (Saale) on April 14, 1945, and was a prisoner of war in the United States until September 1945. In October 1945 he married Elisabeth Scholl (1920-2020), a sister of Sophie, in Ulm. The couple had four sons: Thomas (born 1947), later historian, Jörg (born 1949), Klaus (* 1952) and Martin (born 1956).

[Jimbuna]

I must admit I'd never heard of her.

[tmccarthy]

I remember.

[Bilge_Rat]

I heard of her and saw the movie, very brave young women.

As to the point Skybird raised, she is not the 1st person who initially believed one thing, only to later realize the truth was something else, so I don't hold it against her.

[HunterICX]

Nobody is born a saint, we're all humans and what matters is the choices we've made during our time of which she made a brave one in the end.


It's news to me but not a suprising one since she was a teenager after all. She however did eventually open her eyes and see the rotten truth of what she first cheered and decided to be against it which I applaude.

[vienna]

Sophie Scholl was a member of the White Rose resistance group in Nazi Germany:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose


As far as her espousal of Nazism in her early years, it is important to note many, many of Germany's young people were indoctrinated by the Nazi-controlled education system, with most of those in the system going on to become members of the Hitler Youth organization; it is also important to remember that membership in Nazi organizations, like the Hitler Jugend, was not really a matter of belief and conviction, but more a matter, many times of survival; I have known many persons who, themselves, or their parents and/or family members (including one of my exes) lived in Germany during the time of Hitler and they have stated not participating in or at least making some sort of open endorsement of the Party was often a road to personal disaster; think of it in the sort of lesser framework of the USA in the time of the McCarty Era Red Scare, when not openly backing McCarthy's ersatz brand of 'patriotism' could label you as a "Commie" or "Pinko" and lead to job loss, social shunning, and persecution; the level of 'comply or perish' was far more intense in Nazi Germany, but the base principle is the same; just as there have been many who submitted to the Red Scare tactics only to later openly regret their involvement, to judge someone's perceived espousal of a noxious/toxic philosophy as being the sum of who they are, then and forever, is greatly unfair...

Sophie School, and the others who were part of the White Rose, were the living embodiment of the idea of standing up for humanity and moral right in the face of horrific oppression; Sophie should not be measured by a brief moment in her early life; she took on a behemoth of hate and went down swinging, not going gently...

For many people in life, they should not be measured by what they were willing to live for, but what they fought against in the end and what they were willing to die for...





<O>

[vienna]

Some small, clinging bit of my remaining memory just rustled awake and reminded me of something I had seen in the movie Downfall, about the fall of Nazi Germany, as told through the eyes of Hitler's personal secretary, Traudl Junge, who was present in The Bunker when Hitler took the easy way out; I looked her up in Wikipedia and they have the quote in their article:

Junge died from cancer in Munich on 10 February 2002 at the age of 81,[15] reportedly having said shortly before her death, "Now that I've let go of my story, I can let go of my life." She is buried at Nordfriedhof München.

Further attention came two years later, when some of Junge's experiences with Hitler were portrayed in the Academy Award-nominated film Downfall. Excerpts from her interviews are seen at the beginning and at the end of the film. At the end of the film, she states:

Of course, the horrors, of which I heard in connection of the Nuremberg trials; the fate of the 6 million Jews, their killing and those of many others who represented different races and creeds, shocked me greatly, but, at that time, I could not see any connection between these things and my own past. I was only happy that I had not personally been guilty of these things and that I had not been aware of the scale of these things. However, one day, I walked past a plaque on the Franz-Joseph Straße (in Munich), on the wall in memory of Sophie Scholl. I could see that she had been born the same year as I, and that she had been executed the same year I entered into Hitler's service. And, at that moment, I really realised that it was no excuse that I had been so young. I could perhaps have tried to find out about things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traudl_Junge




<O>

[Eichhörnchen]

^
^ Very eloquently expressed, vienna. As for Traudl Junge, she was interviewed extensively for the "World at War" series and I was always left feeling that, unlike many of the ex Nazi sodiers interviewed, she was guilty far more by association than inclination... and she was genuinely sorry

[vienna]

I have the same impression of Traudl Junge; when I first heard of her, I sought out a number of sources, both print and visual, and, throughout, she remained consistent in her desire to convey how she felt a sincere sense of guilt about the excesses and atrocities of Nazi Germany and her part in that history; she never seemed to want to dodge any responsibility, and she even seemed to want to be held responsible for whatever part she may have played; as stated before, I have known several non-Jewish persons who either were in Nazi Germany before and during The War or who had family who were living in Nazi Germany; for the most part, they really weren't aware or the scope and depth of the Nazi horrors (the Big Lie machine can be very powerful, as we have seen) and seem to have been genuinely shocked when they were confronted with the truth; there were a couple, who were genuinely scary, who expressed neither regret, remorse, nor culpability for whatever role they may have played and it seemed that their biggest regret was thet Germany had lost; one even told me that the defeat of Nazi Germany was unfair because "the whole world was against us, so how could we win?"; that person became incensed and never spoke to me again after I responded by saying "Well, if Hitler hadn't tried attacking the whole world, they wouldn't have felt the need to squash his Reich."...

The real lesson to be learned from Traudl Jugne, that really can still be used today when dealing with those who try to tell us only their way is the "true way", is contained in her own words:

I could perhaps have tried to find out about things.

<O>