Russian and NATO

[Rockstar]

With coffee in hand I read the SUBSIM news feed as part of my morning world wtf brief ritual. Noticed Russia will be participating in a naval exercise with NATO. I thought interesting, wonder what that's all about.

Doesn't appear its all rainbows and unicorns between Russia and China either.

China Now Picks Up Territorial Dispute With Russia, Claims That Vladivostok Used To Be Chinese Land
https://swarajyamag.com/insta/china-...e-chinese-land

Russia Starts Military Buildup In The Far East Near The Chinese Border
https://swarajyamag.com/insta/russia...chinese-border

[mapuc]

One of Tom Clancy's book came into my mind.

This will be monitored.

Markus

[Rockstar]

An Assertive Turkey Muscles Into Russia’s Backyard

Erdogan extended support for Azerbaijan’s military offensive in Nagorno-Karabakh, a rare foray into Kremlin’s sphere of influence

https://www.wsj.com/articles/an-asse...rd-11607696623

[Catfish]

@Russia a two-front war is not a good idea, with greetings from Germany

Seriously
1. this looks like a coming confrontation wth China
2. Wth is this Erdoghan up to, he wants to spoil it with everyone?

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Catfish

@Russia a two-front war is not a good idea, with greetings from Germany

Seriously
1. this looks like a coming confrontation wth China
2. Wth is this Erdoghan up to, he wants to spoil it with everyone?

Why Is Russia Moving Closer to Mongolia?
Russia’s approach to Mongolia is about more than countering China’s influence.

... are Russia’s attempts to bolster its relationship with the region solely aimed at countering Chinese influence? This argument too simplistic and ignores the role of other powers. Moscow’s strategy in Central Asia and Mongolia isn’t only aimed at China, but other regional rivals.


Turkey, for instance, has a historic relationship with the region.


After the successor states to the Mongols were gradually defeated by the Russian Tsar Ivan the Terrible in the 16th century, the Ottoman Turks continued to support their fellow “Turkic Mongol brothers” in their fight against Russia.

Recently, Turkey has been active in “soft power” diplomacy in the area, including working with Mongolian companies to produce masks and other medical equipment and building a 250-tonne capacity warehouse to help Mongolian farmers. Turkey and Russia have a complex relationship, and the fact they support different sides in both the Syria and Libyan conflict has done little to bridge the gap between these two regional and historical rivals.

https://thediplomat.com/2020/06/why-...r-to-mongolia/

[Onkel Neal]

Dammit, why does anybody need to confront anybody? Can't we all just get along?

[Kapitan]

Its not that uncommon to see a Russian ship work with the west they have been doing so for many years specifically on the CTF's off the Somali coast even using our tankers and dry stores to re supply.
2011 Exercise Bold march which was a submarine rescue exercise we say the B871 Alrosa a Project 877V Kilo class submarine take part as the downed vessel off the coast of Spain.

In all honesty I don't think we need to fear Russia, if we look back to the last century both world wars Russia came in on our side, and they have had in recent past border clashes with China as well as many rifts with China.

As for Turkey they are playing a dangerous game and I think it is high time that Turkeys membership of NATO is reviewed.

[Reece]

Originally Posted by Kapitan

In all honesty I don't think we need to fear Russia, if we look back to the last century both world wars Russia came in on our side, and they have had in recent past border clashes with China as well as many rifts with China.

As for Turkey they are playing a dangerous game and I think it is high time that Turkeys membership of NATO is reviewed.

+1 to that!

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Reece

+1 to that!

+2 of course.

Problem is with the turkish population, Erdoghan rules with an iron fist and just of all the pro-west hoteliers and tourist management now has the biggest problems, from missing tourists (who do not want to visit Turkey with this "president" lmao) at the helm, to being under pressure by Erdoghan for their liberal views, to the Corona pandemic.

Turkey was, since Kemal Atatuerk after WW1, a relatively democratic and secular modern state, but this drastically changed with Erdoghan.
It only takes one idiot at the "right" time to screw it all up, for generations to come.

[Rockstar]

Due to the decreasing threat from Russia, the relevance of NATO has become debatable. U.S. President Donald Trump’s recent stand on NATO members has caused U.S. allies to further doubt their promises. In some cases, it has made some of them move closer to its adversaries. Turkey is a prime example of that case...


Also, challenging France (another NATO member) in the Eastern Mediterranean is only exacerbating Turkey’s current state of affairs. The tensions between these NATO members are the byproducts of the overlapping maritime goals, Turkey’s adventurism and megaphone diplomacy.

https://www.youthkiawaaz.com/2020/11...ace-stability/

[Kapitan]

Originally Posted by Catfish

+2 of course.

Problem is with the turkish population, Erdoghan rules with an iron fist and just of all the pro-west hoteliers and tourist management now has the biggest problems, from missing tourists (who do not want to visit Turkey with this "president" lmao) at the helm, to being under pressure by Erdoghan for their liberal views, to the Corona pandemic.

Turkey was, since Kemal Atatuerk after WW1, a relatively democratic and secular modern state, but this drastically changed with Erdoghan.
It only takes one idiot at the "right" time to screw it all up, for generations to come.

It is unfortunate but like the statement says " those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it"

Turkey is going to try and force closure on the Black sea i think, the real issue is Russia is the dominant force there and has the capability to neutralize the Turkish Black sea fleet, but in recent times over the last couple of months even we have seen a change in deployments and basing for Russian units which means they are anticipating this move.
We have also seen powerful units move in to Tartarus and also operate in the Black sea regularly.

I don't think the combined force of Russia's Black sea fleet and its squadron in the Mediterranean backed up by the Northern fleet in some cases, that the Turkish fleet would stand much of a chance.

Now on land that where it would matter if Russia was to go to a full scale landing then i can see there being a Russian disadvantage much like the allies did in the Gallipoli campaign in world war one.

[Mr Quatro]

Russia and China have had border problems before back in the late 70's as I remember, but their common enemy will always remain the USA

[Kapitan]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

Russia and China have had border problems before back in the late 70's as I remember, but their common enemy will always remain the USA

It hasn't always been that way though, 1867 the Russian empire sold Alaska to the United states, they also supported the Unionist side in the civil war, the Russian navy wintered in American ports, the Russo-Japanese war was brokered by the United States and up until 1917 the Russian and Americans had cordial relations with the USA.

The USA in 1918 swung round and went against the Bolsheviks even helped in the intervention, they also formally refused to recognize the soviet union until 1933 from then on it was them and us until 1941 to 1945.

When the wall came down in 1989 relations opened up more and in 91 The USA welcomed Russia and a democracy, it was received well and even the USA loaned money to help the state as well as clean up the legacy.
In 2000 when Putin came to power it was still good relations it was actually Clinton who spoke with Putin and gave him advice on the Kursk affair.

In 2001 the Russia president was the first head of state to phone George Bush over the September 11th attacks, in 2007 in London while at a conference the Russian president offered assistance to the UK and formally condemned alquieda.

Since the early 2000's Russia has assisted in the war on terrorism, a lot of the logistics and flights into and out of Afghanistan pass through Russia and American Aircraft did up until 2013 use Russian airbases as a forward staging point.
Russia also assisted in the recovery of 2 downed CH47's and has provided air lift capacity to the United States numerous occasions.

Right now the relationship in my own assessment is tepid

[ET2SN]

Meanwhile;

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=247684


Cyber attacks are not how you maintain cordial relationships.

That's like me burning down your garden shed just to keep you on your toes.

[Kapitan]

Hence I used the term tepid

We seem to co exist maybe is a better term and each side tries to score points.