Does RA SONAR autocrew do NB?

MarkShot · 11-20-20, 01:45 PM

There are many times the boat is in transit. To spend hours at the SONAR NB sweeping for a ghost in the 0-100Hz is really dull.

It it safe to transit and leave the SONAR autocrew is on? I am concerned that they only report BB contact which could throw anywhere from 10-20nmi of detection away.

Thanks.

MarkShot · 11-22-20, 03:30 AM

Someone must know the answer to this!

(I suppose I can back to the MarkShot Acoustic Labs as I already have best human detection results for some trials.)

Thanks.

MarkShot · 11-22-20, 04:40 AM

I tested this. It did it pretty quick, but I think human sweep gives you 10-20% greater range when carefully.

Captain Reyes · 11-22-20, 07:20 AM

As you noticed in most cases an attentive human operator will pick up contacts first. I lately often use Autocrew on time compression, transits, and out of convenience. While doing so it can be still a good idea to sometimes visit the sonar station and do a manual sweep.

FPSchazly · 11-22-20, 09:24 AM

Yes, I agree with Captain Reyes. Definitely do some manual sweeping on narrowband for classification purposes as well if sonar has found contacts. The human will definitely be better at classifying with only partial frequency data than the AI.

MarkShot · 11-22-20, 09:37 AM

I can basically catch a 50Hz line that is only a black shadow against the lit background.

FPSchazly · 11-22-20, 09:08 PM

Yeah, I consider that a "glitch". If you think about how those displays would work, that signal line is basically creating a blacker black than the monitor is possible of doing. Not your computer monitor, the sonar monitor. That blackest of black should blend in and not be visible until some green starts coming in there. But it is what it is.

MarkShot · 11-22-20, 11:20 PM

I am not sure about a glitch as it does demonstrate an SNR 1,0,1,0,1,0 ... it means it exists in the simulated world and a tracker will hold it.

So, I take it to reflect that in real world just like radiology, it is not all science, but an art and skill. The best will be artists, not just human automatons.

FPSchazly · 11-23-20, 09:04 AM

I'm not saying the signal wouldn't be there. I'm saying that the area of the sonar display around the signal is the darkest that monitor should be able to get. The weakest signal you could detect on that monitor should be that same color. It shouldn't be "darker" than the background of that sonar display, that wouldn't be physically possible. What I mean is, you know when you first get a track and it's easy to see because it's pitch black? As it increases in signal strength a bit, it actually becomes harder to see? That is what I'm talking about and that shouldn't happen - you basically have a negative brightness with respect to the color spectrum possible on that sonar display. The faintest color possible of that signal should basically match the background color of that sonar display.

MarkShot · 11-23-20, 09:37 AM

I get your point.

In testing, auto crew doesn't seem to find these unless you place the cursor close and then flip on auto crew.

11-20-20, 01:45 PM	#1
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	Does RA SONAR autocrew do NB? There are many times the boat is in transit. To spend hours at the SONAR NB sweeping for a ghost in the 0-100Hz is really dull. It it safe to transit and leave the SONAR autocrew is on? I am concerned that they only report BB contact which could throw anywhere from 10-20nmi of detection away. Thanks. __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!

11-22-20, 03:30 AM	#2
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	Someone must know the answer to this! (I suppose I can back to the MarkShot Acoustic Labs as I already have best human detection results for some trials.) Thanks. __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)! Last edited by MarkShot; 11-22-20 at 03:40 AM.

11-22-20, 04:40 AM	#3
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	I tested this. It did it pretty quick, but I think human sweep gives you 10-20% greater range when carefully. __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!

11-22-20, 09:24 AM	#5
FPSchazly Good Hunting! Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Beantown Posts: 776 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 1	Yes, I agree with Captain Reyes. Definitely do some manual sweeping on narrowband for classification purposes as well if sonar has found contacts. The human will definitely be better at classifying with only partial frequency data than the AI. __________________ Your friendly neighborhood modern submarine YouTuber. My videos: Exclusive Look at Modern Naval Warfare! Dangerous Waters Liu Doctrine (LwAmi Learn to play Dangerous Waters

11-22-20, 09:37 AM	#6
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	I can basically catch a 50Hz line that is only a black shadow against the lit background. __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!

11-22-20, 07:20 AM	#4
Captain Reyes Bosun Join Date: Oct 2020 Posts: 69 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	As you noticed in most cases an attentive human operator will pick up contacts first. I lately often use Autocrew on time compression, transits, and out of convenience. While doing so it can be still a good idea to sometimes visit the sonar station and do a manual sweep.

11-22-20, 09:08 PM	#7
FPSchazly Good Hunting! Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Beantown Posts: 776 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 1	Yeah, I consider that a "glitch". If you think about how those displays would work, that signal line is basically creating a blacker black than the monitor is possible of doing. Not your computer monitor, the sonar monitor. That blackest of black should blend in and not be visible until some green starts coming in there. But it is what it is. __________________ Your friendly neighborhood modern submarine YouTuber. My videos: Exclusive Look at Modern Naval Warfare! Dangerous Waters Liu Doctrine (LwAmi Learn to play Dangerous Waters

11-22-20, 11:20 PM	#8
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	I am not sure about a glitch as it does demonstrate an SNR 1,0,1,0,1,0 ... it means it exists in the simulated world and a tracker will hold it. So, I take it to reflect that in real world just like radiology, it is not all science, but an art and skill. The best will be artists, not just human automatons. __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!

11-23-20, 09:04 AM	#9
FPSchazly Good Hunting! Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Beantown Posts: 776 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 1	I'm not saying the signal wouldn't be there. I'm saying that the area of the sonar display around the signal is the darkest that monitor should be able to get. The weakest signal you could detect on that monitor should be that same color. It shouldn't be "darker" than the background of that sonar display, that wouldn't be physically possible. What I mean is, you know when you first get a track and it's easy to see because it's pitch black? As it increases in signal strength a bit, it actually becomes harder to see? That is what I'm talking about and that shouldn't happen - you basically have a negative brightness with respect to the color spectrum possible on that sonar display. The faintest color possible of that signal should basically match the background color of that sonar display. __________________ Your friendly neighborhood modern submarine YouTuber. My videos: Exclusive Look at Modern Naval Warfare! Dangerous Waters Liu Doctrine (LwAmi Learn to play Dangerous Waters

11-23-20, 09:37 AM	#10
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	I get your point. In testing, auto crew doesn't seem to find these unless you place the cursor close and then flip on auto crew. __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!