Some questions from a newbie

[Stevan_Segal]

So I love playing this game although I have never really understood the technical stuff like how to detect enemy ships and get firing solutions so I mainly just play for fun. Now I want to try and get better but have a couple of questions.

1) So I usually just make a simple mission in the editor and practice playing as the Seawolf-class sub against Russian ships. One problem I seem to have is that no matter what I do the enemy ships start pinging me as soon as the mission starts so I feel like I am detected really easily. I usually just go deep and try to remain as silent as possible. What are the best things to do when getting pinged to keep you from being detected? Also is going deep always best against surface ships?

2) How can I identify a ship with the scope? The other day I did a mission and decided to come up to periscope depth and I was able to see the enemy ship which I think was a Russian Vishnya class ship. I marked the ship and heard the crewman say he had a new contact at that location. I also took a photo of the ship and compared it to the database of ships however I still couldn't get it to show a positive ID for the ship and display in the map view and had low confidence. Shouldn't viewing the ship through the scope at least give you a positive ID of the ship so it actually displays when you click on it?

Thanks

[p7p8]

One problem I seem to have is that no matter what I do the enemy ships start pinging me as soon as the mission starts

Check "EMCON" on second page for enemy AI ship and game will be more challenging.

I usually just go deep and try to remain as silent as possible.

At first, you should forget about Silent Hunter style of playing. In WWII ASW was very primitive and what was good tactic then, currently is biggest mistake.
Best "feature" of Seawolf is tactical speed, so pretending whole in the water is just wasting own advantages. You should use layer instead.

In DW best depth for hiding from surface ships underkeel sonar is 30m (100ft) below layer. If you are too deep, your sub can be easily detected.
FPSchazly made video about "shadow zone" - its good explanation how it works.




Of course ASW specialized ships can use Helo or own towed array/dipping sonar and check situation under layer so "shadow zone doesn't gives you 100% of hiding

How can I identify a ship with the scope?

RMB on contact on map and "classify contact"
But you should avoid using periscope. For most ASW ships, your periscope max visual identification range means you can be detected via passive TA sonar. Also its very risky when ASW helo is in the air.

Your main identification "tool" is towed array in narrowband mode - not periscope.


Don't play DW like SH

[A-Ganger]

One thing I've noticed on CM's, if you launch from WEP screen, it goes shallow or deep (I guess based on OS depth).

But if you right click your sub on the NAV (map) screen, you can tell the CM to launch shallow or deep.

Not sure why there was never an option on the WEP screen to do the same as on NAV screen?

The 688 has the settings on the CM launcher control panel where the launcher is in the sub!

Sometimes if I think I've been detected, I'll drop a CM, drop below layer if one exists, turn 90°- 120° from where I think enemy is (if I haven't found them on sonar yet) and increase speed to about FULL for a few min then slow back down and go above layer to original course and search again.

[p7p8]

Its because of DW interface limitations. Deep or shallow was possible to ad only in context menu.

[Stevan_Segal]

Originally Posted by p7p8

Check "EMCON" on second page for enemy AI ship and game will be more challenging.


At first, you should forget about Silent Hunter style of playing. In WWII ASW was very primitive and what was good tactic then, currently is biggest mistake.
Best "feature" of Seawolf is tactical speed, so pretending whole in the water is just wasting own advantages. You should use layer instead.

In DW best depth for hiding from surface ships underkeel sonar is 30m (100ft) below layer. If you are too deep, your sub can be easily detected.
FPSchazly made video about "shadow zone" - its good explanation how it works.




Of course ASW specialized ships can use Helo or own towed array/dipping sonar and check situation under layer so "shadow zone doesn't gives you 100% of hiding


RMB on contact on map and "classify contact"
But you should avoid using periscope. For most ASW ships, your periscope max visual identification range means you can be detected via passive TA sonar. Also its very risky when ASW helo is in the air.

Your main identification "tool" is towed array in narrowband mode - not periscope.


Don't play DW like SH

Thanks, I tried watching the video and understood part of it but still don't know how to determine where the layer is or how to determine where the shadow zone is.

Yeah I know using periscope isn't the best but I was just messing around to see if I could easily detect the ship.

[Polak2]

but still don't know how to determine where the layer is or how to determine where the shadow zone is.

Look at your last type of the sonar controls - SSP(sound speed profile) . Watch basic sonar tutorial #5 at the end on how to use it.

My question on shadow zone is: can TA of the surface unit be lowered into to shadow zone and if it can, what happens then to the sub protection?

[FPSchazly]

The towed can't really be lowered in the shadow zone per se because the shadow zone is a few miles away (this is more a technicality), but you can lower the towed array beneath the layer and then in that instance, the shadow zone no longer "exists" for the towed array because the sensor is on the same side of the layer as the shadow zone. If you're in a submarine in the shadow zone from a surface ship, you can also lower your towed array below where the shadow zone ends and hear the surface ship. I visualize that in the Shadow Zone video (thanks for linking it!)

[Polak2]

So it looks like a lesson for the newb (like me) to be learned that the shadow zone is really a "shadow" from the HULL or UNDERKEEL sonar but not really Towed Array which can be after all lowered below thermal layer anytime (say by other surface unit in the back or search Helo) as long as that thermal layer depth is within dipping sonar or TA (of other surface unit) effective reach parameters.

I think the other thing hard to visualize for the newcomers us the 3D aspect of those acoustical anomalies. Tutorial is showing only 2D slither of the vast 3D "shadow" volume around the surface unit. Only after reading above posts I can perhaps slowly visualise that 3D ring feature which should be around the entire vessel.

Quite fascinating that all of this is modeled into DW simulation.

[p7p8]

Not always player surface ship can reach under layer. Sometimes layer is too deep and sometimes high speed prevents antenna to goo deeper (for example if player is escort of fast moving surf group)

Player can regulate TA depth via ownship speed or lenght of cable. For AI warship are discrete values for each TA types.

For example Type 23 Duke Frigate in RA database:



And ranges of depth (ft) / speed (kts) for TA:

[Pisces]

Also consider this video by JiveTurkey. It is focussed on Cold Waters though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-3khvUtY9

He has more of this in his Whiteboard playlist.

[Pisces]

Originally Posted by Polak2

So it looks like a lesson for the newb (like me) to be learned that the shadow zone is really a "shadow" from the HULL or UNDERKEEL sonar but not really Towed Array which can be after all lowered below thermal layer anytime (say by other surface unit in the back or search Helo) as long as that thermal layer depth is within dipping sonar or TA (of other surface unit) effective reach parameters.

I think the other thing hard to visualize for the newcomers us the 3D aspect of those acoustical anomalies. Tutorial is showing only 2D slither of the vast 3D "shadow" volume around the surface unit. Only after reading above posts I can perhaps slowly visualise that 3D ring feature which should be around the entire vessel.

Quite fascinating that all of this is modeled into DW simulation.

The shadow zone has nothing to do with baffles or obstruction by the hull. It is the effect of curved and reflected soundwave paths around the layer (look at that sharp peak in the soundspeed curve) The shadow zone is where the sound does not reach. Like light-shadows, it is accoustically 'dark'.

[Polak2]

shadow zone has nothing to do with baffles or obstruction by the hull

Yes, I get it. My understanding was that baffles have nothing to do with the shadow zone. Thanks.