Harrison Ford investigated over LA runway incident

Jimbuna · 04-30-20, 08:48 AM

Quote:

US actor Harrison Ford is being investigated over an incident last week at an airport in southern California.

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) said he was piloting a small plane that wrongly crossed a runway where another aircraft was landing.

The planes were within about 3,600ft (1,100m) of each other at Los Angeles' Hawthorne airport last Friday. There was no danger of a crash, the FAA said.

Ford, 77, acknowledged his mistake and apologised, his representative said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52481858

I think it's about time he had his wings clipped, for his own safety as well as everyone elses.

Dowly · 04-30-20, 09:48 AM

Radio traffic:

Jimbuna · 04-30-20, 10:10 AM

Hmm... Is this the same man who did the Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs...?

Skybird · 04-30-20, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I think it's about time he had his wings clipped, for his own safety as well as everyone elses.

Overdue.

I recalled that this is not the first incident he is involved in, but the article tells me this is actually already number five.

Hey Han, do your math! With 77 you are closer to 87 than 27. Your neurons, nerves and cognitive functions do not get refreshed any time soon.

Spoon 11th · 04-30-20, 10:21 AM

This guy is fluent in flying a fridge, so let him pilot any airplane he wishes.

Aktungbby · 04-30-20, 11:45 AM

Spoon 11th!

...speaking from personal experience as a 172 Cessna pilot, who's taxed across busy runways, and long-hauler 18 wheeler myself; both me and my neighbor (74 )quit flying as our required total 'situational-awareness' ability is shot..and took up sailing!!

Nearsightedness , deafness(even with widex aids bluetuthed to headsets,) and reflexes) preclude safe flying out of a public airport. A 95 year old ex WWII navy pilot buddy still flies his Citabria plane but always has a co-pilot he hires with him? All my '70's ROTC classmates had to retire from their post-military commercial airline jobs at age 60ish and don't miss it....I think Han Solo's 'millenium falcon 'daze' should end...and I wouldn't appreciate anyone crash-landing on my golfcourse in the middle of my backswing either, celebrity or otherwise!

Platapus · 04-30-20, 05:19 PM

It is easy to get distracted near airports even when you are young.

ET2SN · 04-30-20, 05:22 PM

Flight sim is enough for me

and even that doesn't replicate flying in southern Cali.

There's things out there that can really mess you up. I think he was at Burbank or maybe John Wayne? The taxi ways are like a rabbit den, they go everywhere.

Edit- OK, Hawethorn. These are old airports where they just kept building stuff to deal with the traffic.

ET2SN · 04-30-20, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Hmm... Is this the same man who did the Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs...?

..with the left turn signal on.

Mr Quatro · 04-30-20, 06:25 PM

The ATC man on the news was not happy with him

u crank · 04-30-20, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ET2SN

..with the left turn signal on.

That's funny cause I do it all the time.

Jeff-Groves · 04-30-20, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Hmm... Is this the same man who did the Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs...?

So they say.
What they don't say is how many people he killed doing it!

GoldenRivet · 04-30-20, 11:21 PM

An unfortunate situation.

You dont have to be a pilot to know that alertness and situational awareness must be on point throughout the flight - especially in an area as busy as southern California.

Pilot deviations happen, Ive known capable, current and competent pilots who have experienced them quite by honest mistake. While i have never been investigated for a pilot deviation, i have had a couple of close calls. At the end of a long trip or a tough day of flying, fighting weather, delays, equipment malfunctions and on the last leg of the last flight of the last day of a trip sequence you've flown 100 times before ATC gives you something totally different than you normally receive... its a recipe for a deviation. Fortunately as a crew you can work together to avoid such things, but even to experienced flight crews with tens of thousands of hours such a thing can take place - this gets more complicated when you are single pilot. Which ford may have been

this situation however was solely on Ford. nobody else... I think in this case, Ford read back what he was expecting to hear - a runway crossing clearance.

I read an article about pilot deviations and it mentions dogs, and their dog food bowls. Leave the dog food bowl in one place for several weeks and the dog gets used to it and comfortable with it. Move the bowl and the dog will be disorganized and confused in their reaction.

Same thing happens to pilots. I remember one trip flying a large turbine powered airplane into my HOME airport with which i was very familiar. In this case, due to runway lengthening, the taxiway was closed from an intersection to the end of the runway. this required us to taxi to the intersection, cross the runway, and take a left continuing to the end of the runway on another taxiway. It was a simple process, and we went about this for many weeks. Suddenly, one day as we were turning onto this intersection to hold short waiting for crossing instructions the tower said "Dont turn there dont turn there!" now... there wasn't a safety issue, we didnt make the turn... its just that their construction had been finished and ground controller was trying to save us a rather long trip to the end of the runway. in this case the construction was now finished after several weeks. we could resume the normal route to the runway, but we had become so accustomed to doing it this way it came natural. our food bowl had been moved.

In this case, Ford had probably taken that route back to the hangar a hundred times, and most times, he had likely received crossing clearance without delay. In this case it was likley what he expected. and he simply went with what he was expecting to hear.

It just goes to show how a moment of inattention or distraction can plunge one into a dangerous - or potentially dangerous situation.

Do i think Ford needs to have his wings clipped?

well, age is definitely a factor here. Airlines require pilots to retire at age 65, and for all the right reasons which have been discussed in this very thread.

I this matter - given their investigation - the FAA has the final word.

personally, given the incident history, i might have at least suggested a "709 ride", which is a request for re-examination to an airman after the FAA discovers evidence that leads it to question an airman’s qualifications to exercise the privileges of their certificate.

at least having to go through the 709 ride the FAA could have definitively made a determination as to Ford's competence without just grounding him outright

they say "one day, as a pilot, you will take your last flight in an airplane.

You'll either know its your last flight, or you wont."

when we advance enough in age, we have to decide that we wont be doing this anymore after today, and our career as an aviator is relegated to stories of adventure to be shared with any young ear that would listen.

Perhaps its time for Mr Ford to consider such a decision. But, as it stands, thats currently up to him

vienna · 05-01-20, 12:39 AM

Hawthorne Airport is a rather small airfield located in the middle of a well-populated area; I recall waiting for a light rail train on and elevated platform in the middle of the nearby freeway when, suddenly, from below the surrounding rooftop level(s), I saw a small plane, similar to the one in GoldenRivet's post, pop up into the sky; the plane gained altitude, circled around, and then headed back to the unseen airfield, descended below the rooftops only to rise again after being out of view for a few seconds; it repeated this pattern for several more times, so I presumed the pilot was practicing 'touch-and-go' landings...

The airfield is very small and has only one runway according to a co-worker who is a pilot and had flown out of Hawthorne before; he also said doing something like 'touch-and-go' practice at Hawthorne is a bit risky since, if something happens, there really isn't much safety space because of all the surrounding residences and businesses; the location of Hawthorne is very near the much larger LAX Airport and airspace infringement with LAX has been a problem in the past...

I have basically decided to give up my driver's license when it comes up for renewal on my upcoming 70th birthday; I haven't owned a car in years and have driven only very rarely in recent years; it is a law in California that all drivers have to be retested full, both written and behind the wheel, when they reach the age of 70; my nighttime vision has diminished in the last few years and current medical conditions make me wary of being behind the wheel; I'm not keen on the prospect of possibly hurting someone else just because of being too proud to admit the time has come to let common sense and reality to be a bigger factor than deluded self-image...

<O>

em2nought · 05-01-20, 03:31 AM

Ford's TDS is probably effecting his mental abilities.

04-30-20, 10:10 AM	#3
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,461 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Hmm... Is this the same man who did the Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs...? __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

04-30-20, 11:45 AM	#6
Aktungbby Gefallen Engel U-666 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy Posts: 29,981 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	Welcome back! Spoon 11th! ...speaking from personal experience as a 172 Cessna pilot, who's taxed across busy runways, and long-hauler 18 wheeler myself; both me and my neighbor (74 )quit flying as our required total '*situational-awareness' ability is shot..and took up sailing!! Nearsightedness , deafness(even with widex aids bluetuthed to headsets,) and reflexes) preclude safe flying out of a public airport. A 95 year old ex WWII navy pilot buddy still flies his Citabria plane but always has a co-pilot he hires with him? All my '70's ROTC classmates had to retire from their post-military commercial airline jobs at age 60ish and don't miss it....I think Han Solo's 'millenium falcon 'daze' should end...and I wouldn't appreciate anyone* crash-landing on my golfcourse in the middle of my backswing either, celebrity or otherwise! __________________ "Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness?!!

04-30-20, 05:19 PM	#7
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,360 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	It is easy to get distracted near airports even when you are young. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

04-30-20, 06:25 PM	#10
Mr Quatro Navy Seal Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 6,772 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The ATC man on the news was not happy with him __________________ pla•teau noun a relatively stable level, period, or condition a level of attainment or achievement Lord help me get to the next plateau ..

04-30-20, 11:21 PM	#13
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	An unfortunate situation. You dont have to be a pilot to know that alertness and situational awareness must be on point throughout the flight - especially in an area as busy as southern California. Pilot deviations happen, Ive known capable, current and competent pilots who have experienced them quite by honest mistake. While i have never been investigated for a pilot deviation, i have had a couple of close calls. At the end of a long trip or a tough day of flying, fighting weather, delays, equipment malfunctions and on the last leg of the last flight of the last day of a trip sequence you've flown 100 times before ATC gives you something totally different than you normally receive... its a recipe for a deviation. Fortunately as a crew you can work together to avoid such things, but even to experienced flight crews with tens of thousands of hours such a thing can take place - this gets more complicated when you are single pilot. Which ford may have been this situation however was solely on Ford. nobody else... I think in this case, Ford read back what he was expecting to hear - a runway crossing clearance. I read an article about pilot deviations and it mentions dogs, and their dog food bowls. Leave the dog food bowl in one place for several weeks and the dog gets used to it and comfortable with it. Move the bowl and the dog will be disorganized and confused in their reaction. Same thing happens to pilots. I remember one trip flying a large turbine powered airplane into my HOME airport with which i was very familiar. In this case, due to runway lengthening, the taxiway was closed from an intersection to the end of the runway. this required us to taxi to the intersection, cross the runway, and take a left continuing to the end of the runway on another taxiway. It was a simple process, and we went about this for many weeks. Suddenly, one day as we were turning onto this intersection to hold short waiting for crossing instructions the tower said "Dont turn there dont turn there!" now... there wasn't a safety issue, we didnt make the turn... its just that their construction had been finished and ground controller was trying to save us a rather long trip to the end of the runway. in this case the construction was now finished after several weeks. we could resume the normal route to the runway, but we had become so accustomed to doing it this way it came natural. our food bowl had been moved. In this case, Ford had probably taken that route back to the hangar a hundred times, and most times, he had likely received crossing clearance without delay. In this case it was likley what he expected. and he simply went with what he was expecting to hear. It just goes to show how a moment of inattention or distraction can plunge one into a dangerous - or potentially dangerous situation. Do i think Ford needs to have his wings clipped? well, age is definitely a factor here. Airlines require pilots to retire at age 65, and for all the right reasons which have been discussed in this very thread. I this matter - given their investigation - the FAA has the final word. personally, given the incident history, i might have at least suggested a "709 ride", which is a request for re-examination to an airman after the FAA discovers evidence that leads it to question an airman’s qualifications to exercise the privileges of their certificate. at least having to go through the 709 ride the FAA could have definitively made a determination as to Ford's competence without just grounding him outright they say "one day, as a pilot, you will take your last flight in an airplane. You'll either know its your last flight, or you wont." when we advance enough in age, we have to decide that we wont be doing this anymore after today, and our career as an aviator is relegated to stories of adventure to be shared with any young ear that would listen. Perhaps its time for Mr Ford to consider such a decision. But, as it stands, thats currently up to him __________________

04-30-20, 09:48 AM	#2
Dowly Lucky Jack Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 25,052 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	Radio traffic:

04-30-20, 10:21 AM	#5
Spoon 11th Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Finland Posts: 689 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	This guy is fluent in flying a fridge, so let him pilot any airplane he wishes.

04-30-20, 05:22 PM	#8
ET2SN Ocean Warrior Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 2,652 Downloads: 60 Uploads: 0	Flight sim is enough for me and even that doesn't replicate flying in southern Cali. There's things out there that can really mess you up. I think he was at Burbank or maybe John Wayne? The taxi ways are like a rabbit den, they go everywhere. Edit- OK, Hawethorn. These are old airports where they just kept building stuff to deal with the traffic.

05-01-20, 12:39 AM	#14
vienna Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Anywhere but the here & now... Posts: 7,711 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Hawthorne Airport is a rather small airfield located in the middle of a well-populated area; I recall waiting for a light rail train on and elevated platform in the middle of the nearby freeway when, suddenly, from below the surrounding rooftop level(s), I saw a small plane, similar to the one in GoldenRivet's post, pop up into the sky; the plane gained altitude, circled around, and then headed back to the unseen airfield, descended below the rooftops only to rise again after being out of view for a few seconds; it repeated this pattern for several more times, so I presumed the pilot was practicing 'touch-and-go' landings... The airfield is very small and has only one runway according to a co-worker who is a pilot and had flown out of Hawthorne before; he also said doing something like 'touch-and-go' practice at Hawthorne is a bit risky since, if something happens, there really isn't much safety space because of all the surrounding residences and businesses; the location of Hawthorne is very near the much larger LAX Airport and airspace infringement with LAX has been a problem in the past... I have basically decided to give up my driver's license when it comes up for renewal on my upcoming 70th birthday; I haven't owned a car in years and have driven only very rarely in recent years; it is a law in California that all drivers have to be retested full, both written and behind the wheel, when they reach the age of 70; my nighttime vision has diminished in the last few years and current medical conditions make me wary of being behind the wheel; I'm not keen on the prospect of possibly hurting someone else just because of being too proud to admit the time has come to let common sense and reality to be a bigger factor than deluded self-image... <O> __________________ __________________________________________________ __

05-01-20, 03:31 AM	#15
em2nought Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,485 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Ford's TDS is probably effecting his mental abilities. __________________ em2nought is ecstatic garbage!