Vector Analysis Attack Rules

skirich · 09-14-19, 10:20 PM

I've been playing using either the Dick OKane method of targeting or using the 3D TDC and PK. Both have been very effective.

However there are times the Dick Okane method is not possible to get the lineup in time, and the TDC method is somewhat calculation intensive and tracking the target is necessary for a few points to get a proper solution.

The Vector method has intrigued me based on what I read off the Bag o Tricks thread.

I want to make sure I understand this, please correct me if wrong.

1. Trace path of target, get proper bearing and speed.
2. Plot course of intercept of the path someplace in front of target.
3. Plot aiming point on target course based on 100yrd X speed of target.
4. Get my sub to the spot on my own course equal to 100yrd X torpedo speed.
5. Stop sub at that spot.
6. When target crosses aiming point - shoot.

If that all sounds right, can you tell me does this only work when my angle of attack is greater than 90 ( target is in front of me coming at me) ? Can I use this method to target a ship that I am chasing assuming I can get to the sub setup point?

skirich · 09-14-19, 10:46 PM

I just finished watching the Cromwell video.
Seems like this is the Vector Analysis attack except with a 45 degree approach to the target bearing.

It also looks like I dont need to stop the sub at all. I just need to plot the solution for the torp speed off to the side and then just program the solution. the math should work out even if I am decreasing distance to the target as long as I am within the torpedo max range.

Sound about right?

skirich · 09-15-19, 12:35 AM

Well, I've been reading that bag o tricks thread and there is some great info and more videos.

I believe I have this right in my head. Going back in to actually try it.

Answers to questions I asked I believe are no, you dont need to stop and shoot as long as the angle is calculated right, and you are within torpedo travel range. This is due in part to setting up the speed in the tdc as zero so you are always shooting the same spot in cromwell and vector.

I appears that the Vectorand Cromwell can in fact be shot while moving. A plus. With DOK, pluggin in target speed, then range needs to be relatively accurate before firing, as the TDC will move the gyro intercept point with range.

Barkerov · 09-15-19, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skirich

I've been playing using either the Dick OKane method of targeting or using the 3D TDC and PK. Both have been very effective.

However there are times the Dick Okane method is not possible to get the lineup in time, and the TDC method is somewhat calculation intensive and tracking the target is necessary for a few points to get a proper solution.

The Vector method has intrigued me based on what I read off the Bag o Tricks thread.

I want to make sure I understand this, please correct me if wrong.

1. Trace path of target, get proper bearing and speed.
2. Plot course of intercept of the path someplace in front of target.
3. Plot aiming point on target course based on 100yrd X speed of target.
4. Get my sub to the spot on my own course equal to 100yrd X torpedo speed.
5. Stop sub at that spot.
6. When target crosses aiming point - shoot.

If that all sounds right, can you tell me does this only work when my angle of attack is greater than 90 ( target is in front of me coming at me) ? Can I use this method to target a ship that I am chasing assuming I can get to the sub setup point?

Steps 1 to 4 sound right to me, but you don't have to be stationary so step 5 is unnecessary. Step 6 is correct.

Step 5 is not necessary provided that you are not turning. It isn't needed because when you're talking about triangles everything is kept in proportion if the angles don't change. For example, if you have a 9 knot target and a 46 knot torpedo and you draw lines of 900 and 4600 respectively, you get the same angle as you would if you drew a 9000 yard line and a 46000 yard line. The only reason we multiply by 100 is that it's easier to do on the plot map. It's because of this proportionality that the range doesn't matter in a vector analysis attack (unless you go to close for the torpedo to arm or too far that it runs out of fuel).

So, you should be able to use the vector analysis attack whenever you can draw the vectors of your torpedo and target (i.e. ANY situation).

Sniper297 · 09-16-19, 08:21 PM

One thing I haven't seen mentioned - Open outer doors. Real life procedure was to order the crew to open the outer doors on the selected tubes before reaching the firing position. During the approach, the TDC constantly sent gyro angle commands to the torpedoes via spindles inside the tubes that projected into a hole in the top of each torpedo. When the fire button was pushed it set off a sequence where the spindle was withdrawn, the blast of compressed air pushed the torpedo out of the tube, and a trip activated the engine or motor start.

Note that in the game the programming simulates the withdrawing spindle when the fire button is pressed, so the gyro stops receiving angle updates.

If the outer door is already open the torpedo leaves the tube a second after the fire command is sent. Unlike real life, if you forget to hit the Q key to open the outer door, the game opens it automatically - and takes about 5 seconds between firing command and actual firing. That means your gyro angle is ancient history, which results in a lot of misses.

I have all my subtype.sim files hacked, where the files say;

wpn_SubTorpedoSys
auto_open = True

I changed all those to;
auto_open = False

That way I can't make a mistake, if I hit the fire button and the door isn't already open, nothing happens. So hit Q, wait 5 seconds, then hit fire again, got a fresh up to date gyro angle.

However you do it, whatever method you use, the worst programming in this game is that automatic opening of the outer doors, so make sure the outer doors are open before firing instead of depending on the faulty automatic door opening "feature".

skirich · 09-17-19, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper297

One thing I haven't seen mentioned - Open outer doors. Real life procedure was to order the crew to open the outer doors on the selected tubes before reaching the firing position. During the approach, the TDC constantly sent gyro angle commands to the torpedoes via spindles inside the tubes that projected into a hole in the top of each torpedo. When the fire button was pushed it set off a sequence where the spindle was withdrawn, the blast of compressed air pushed the torpedo out of the tube, and a trip activated the engine or motor start.

Note that in the game the programming simulates the withdrawing spindle when the fire button is pressed, so the gyro stops receiving angle updates.

If the outer door is already open the torpedo leaves the tube a second after the fire command is sent. Unlike real life, if you forget to hit the Q key to open the outer door, the game opens it automatically - and takes about 5 seconds between firing command and actual firing. That means your gyro angle is ancient history, which results in a lot of misses.

I have all my subtype.sim files hacked, where the files say;

wpn_SubTorpedoSys
auto_open = True

I changed all those to;
auto_open = False

That way I can't make a mistake, if I hit the fire button and the door isn't already open, nothing happens. So hit Q, wait 5 seconds, then hit fire again, got a fresh up to date gyro angle.

However you do it, whatever method you use, the worst programming in this game is that automatic opening of the outer doors, so make sure the outer doors are open before firing instead of depending on the faulty automatic door opening "feature".

Excelllent factoid. I saw that parameter in my modding trolling. Will certainly be setting they up.

jimmbbo · 09-17-19, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper297

One thing I haven't seen mentioned - Open outer doors.
If the outer door is already open the torpedo leaves the tube a second after the fire command is sent. Unlike real life, if you forget to hit the Q key to open the outer door, the game opens it automatically - and takes about 5 seconds between firing command and actual firing. That means your gyro angle is ancient history, which results in a lot of misses.

True dat!

Early in my SH4 career I missed that "detail" and couldn't figure out why the torpedoes were passing aft of the target, with an occasional hit near the stern... Somewhere in SubSim I read a post and the light came on... Now hitting the "Q" key is part of my setup routine... When it doesn't get done, I am rewarded with one or more lost torpedoes...

skirich · 09-17-19, 09:52 PM

Tried this ...

wpn_SubTorpedoSys
auto_open = False

in the NSS_Balao.sim file
but was still able to fire a torpedo. Doors opened, torpedo launched.

Granted I'm in the middle of a patrol, so maybe the value will be respected after I start a new patrol. Will report back.

propbeanie · 09-18-19, 06:23 AM

Try one of the Quick Missions for another test

Sniper297 · 09-19-19, 12:39 AM

Right. Some hacks take effect wherever and whenever, hacks that affect systems in most cases require starting a new patrol or even a new career. Problem is the data is in the save game, reload a save game and it uses the old data saved before the hack. If it doesn't work right from a saved career, as propbeanie says try a quick mission or start a new temp career. Works there but not save game, need to start from scratch. Doesn't work in quick mission or new career, something wrong with the hack.

09-14-19, 10:20 PM	#1
skirich Chief Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Patroling the south pacific Posts: 321 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	Vector Analysis Attack Rules I've been playing using either the Dick OKane method of targeting or using the 3D TDC and PK. Both have been very effective. However there are times the Dick Okane method is not possible to get the lineup in time, and the TDC method is somewhat calculation intensive and tracking the target is necessary for a few points to get a proper solution. The Vector method has intrigued me based on what I read off the Bag o Tricks thread. I want to make sure I understand this, please correct me if wrong. 1. Trace path of target, get proper bearing and speed. 2. Plot course of intercept of the path someplace in front of target. 3. Plot aiming point on target course based on 100yrd X speed of target. 4. Get my sub to the spot on my own course equal to 100yrd X torpedo speed. 5. Stop sub at that spot. 6. When target crosses aiming point - shoot. If that all sounds right, can you tell me does this only work when my angle of attack is greater than 90 ( target is in front of me coming at me) ? Can I use this method to target a ship that I am chasing assuming I can get to the sub setup point?

09-18-19, 06:23 AM	#9
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 10,103 Downloads: 451 Uploads: 2	Try one of the Quick Missions for another test __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayers" - Jimbuna

09-14-19, 10:46 PM	#2
skirich Chief Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Patroling the south pacific Posts: 321 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	I just finished watching the Cromwell video. Seems like this is the Vector Analysis attack except with a 45 degree approach to the target bearing. It also looks like I dont need to stop the sub at all. I just need to plot the solution for the torp speed off to the side and then just program the solution. the math should work out even if I am decreasing distance to the target as long as I am within the torpedo max range. Sound about right?

09-15-19, 12:35 AM	#3
skirich Chief Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Patroling the south pacific Posts: 321 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	Well, I've been reading that bag o tricks thread and there is some great info and more videos. I believe I have this right in my head. Going back in to actually try it. Answers to questions I asked I believe are no, you dont need to stop and shoot as long as the angle is calculated right, and you are within torpedo travel range. This is due in part to setting up the speed in the tdc as zero so you are always shooting the same spot in cromwell and vector. I appears that the Vectorand Cromwell can in fact be shot while moving. A plus. With DOK, pluggin in target speed, then range needs to be relatively accurate before firing, as the TDC will move the gyro intercept point with range.

09-16-19, 08:21 PM	#5
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	One thing I haven't seen mentioned - Open outer doors. Real life procedure was to order the crew to open the outer doors on the selected tubes before reaching the firing position. During the approach, the TDC constantly sent gyro angle commands to the torpedoes via spindles inside the tubes that projected into a hole in the top of each torpedo. When the fire button was pushed it set off a sequence where the spindle was withdrawn, the blast of compressed air pushed the torpedo out of the tube, and a trip activated the engine or motor start. Note that in the game the programming simulates the withdrawing spindle when the fire button is pressed, so the gyro stops receiving angle updates. If the outer door is already open the torpedo leaves the tube a second after the fire command is sent. Unlike real life, if you forget to hit the Q key to open the outer door, the game opens it automatically - and takes about 5 seconds between firing command and actual firing. That means your gyro angle is ancient history, which results in a lot of misses. I have all my subtype.sim files hacked, where the files say; wpn_SubTorpedoSys auto_open = True I changed all those to; auto_open = False That way I can't make a mistake, if I hit the fire button and the door isn't already open, nothing happens. So hit Q, wait 5 seconds, then hit fire again, got a fresh up to date gyro angle. However you do it, whatever method you use, the worst programming in this game is that automatic opening of the outer doors, so make sure the outer doors are open before firing instead of depending on the faulty automatic door opening "feature".

09-17-19, 09:52 PM	#8
skirich Chief Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Patroling the south pacific Posts: 321 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	Tried this ... wpn_SubTorpedoSys auto_open = False in the NSS_Balao.sim file but was still able to fire a torpedo. Doors opened, torpedo launched. Granted I'm in the middle of a patrol, so maybe the value will be respected after I start a new patrol. Will report back.

09-19-19, 12:39 AM	#10
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	Right. Some hacks take effect wherever and whenever, hacks that affect systems in most cases require starting a new patrol or even a new career. Problem is the data is in the save game, reload a save game and it uses the old data saved before the hack. If it doesn't work right from a saved career, as propbeanie says try a quick mission or start a new temp career. Works there but not save game, need to start from scratch. Doesn't work in quick mission or new career, something wrong with the hack.