SF CHRONICLE "Pampanito See-worthy again"

[Aktungbby]

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Pampanito-submarine-to-come-out-of-dry-dock-10616791.php

[Commander Wallace]

The Pampanito is / was well worth saving. The article mentions attaching 60 plates below the waterline so the structural integrity is maintained.

Wouldn't it be easier and more cost effective to keep it out of the water as was done with U-995 in Laboe, Germany ?

Better still, create an enclosure to house the Submarine as was done with U-505.

[AVGWarhawk]

The Torsk was pulled to dry dock about 8 years ago. The Navy dives the Torsk once a year while berthed in the harbor. Overall safety check performed. She was pulled to dry dock to have several large holes repaired. At that time she would list to starboard. I believe a million was spent. This included use of the dry dock and tug. I would imagine keeping the sub out of the water would give it a bit longer life of the metals before replacement is necessary.

[Mr Quatro]

How old is 65 years in a submarines life anyway? You know like they do for humans and dogs?

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

The Pampanito is / was well worth saving. The article mentions attaching 60 plates below the waterline so the structural integrity is maintained.

Wouldn't it be easier and more cost effective to keep it out of the water as was done with U-995 in Laboe, Germany ?

Better still, create an enclosure to house the Submarine as was done with U-505.

Good point and your probably right but there's a little money involved here as well. The sub is moored directly behind the SS Jeremiah O'brien Liberty Ship; creating a lucrative 1-2 punch for enthusiasts to tour both: at $20 a head...each along famed Fisherman's Wharf. With proper reserve funds for a refit every 7-10 years and the more than adequate drydock facilities of the Bay Area it's $till a better arrangement and in a proper setting. It opened for tours in 1982 and attracts more than 100,000 (U do the mathematic$!!?) visitors a year. This is its fifth time in dry-dock, and this visit finally happened after $200,000 was secured in a National Maritime Heritage Grant. The funds come from scrap metal sales as ships in the Mothball Fleet in Suisun Bay are dismantled. Considering they're sanding the sanitary tank and replacing the torpedo gaskets for the first time...it's a happy ship. <Said Suisun Mothball fleet, just 50 miles NE, over my boat's stowed whisker-pole: Down to about eight ships now. The vessels' old lead-based flaking rust & hull-paint has created a decades-old considerable toxic-environmental mess; so the demise of old cargo ships is not a bad thing, in addition to helping preserve the USS Pampanito.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

Good point and your probably right but there's a little money involved here as well. The sub is moored directly behind the SS Jeremiah O'brien Liberty Ship; creating a lucrative 1-2 punch for enthusiasts to tour both: at $20 a head...each along famed Fisherman's Wharf. With proper reserve funds for a refit every 7-10 years and the more than adequate drydock facilities of the Bay Area it's $till a better arrangement and in a proper setting. It opened for tours in 1982 and attracts more than 100,000 (U do the mathematic$!!?) visitors a year. This is its fifth time in dry-dock, and this visit finally happened after $200,000 was secured in a National Maritime Heritage Grant. The funds come from scrap metal sales as ships in the Mothball Fleet in Suisun Bay are dismantled. Considering they're sanding the sanitary tank and replacing the torpedo gaskets for the first time...it's a happy ship. <Said Suisun Mothball fleet, just 50 miles NE, over my boat's stowed whisker-pole: Down to about eight ships now. The vessels' old lead-based flaking rust & hull-paint has created a decades-old considerable toxic-environmental mess; so the demise of old cargo ships is not a bad thing, in addition to helping preserve the USS Pampanito.

I can see your point as well. I can understand it takes money to maintain these vessels. Still,With the Torsk In Baltimore, the Balao-class submarine, the USS Pampanito in San Francisco and many others, they are a piece of history that other generations can learn from. The Pampanito earned six battle stars for World War II service as well. It is not like the vessels don't have a value beyond what they are worth as scrap metal.

With the pacific fleet in tatters after Dec 7 of 1941, These Submarines and more importantly, the men who crewed them, carried on the fight while the Pacific fleet was being rebuilt. Like many, I feel they are a legacy one can't put a dollar value on and thus should be maintained.

The U.K dealt with similar issues I believe.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

I can see your point as well. I can understand it takes money to maintain these vessels. Still,With the Torsk In Baltimore, the Balao-class submarine, the USS Pampanito in San Francisco and many others, they are a piece of history that other generations can learn from. The Pampanito earned six battle stars for World War II service as well. It is not like the vessels don't have a value beyond what they are worth as scrap metal.

With the pacific fleet in tatters after Dec 7 of 1941, These Submarines and more importantly, the men who crewed them, carried on the fight while the Pacific fleet was being rebuilt. Like many, I feel they are a legacy one can't put a dollar value on and thus should be maintained.

The U.K dealt with similar issues I believe.

The Torsk in Baltimore is loathed by the Baltimore Aquarium(and others) but the sub draws many to the harbor that generates revenue for the city. The entire harbor is a cash cow for the city and they know it. So, the Torsk gets a few dollars here and there. The Constellation gets the lions share of dollars for upkeep.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

The Torsk in Baltimore is loathed by the Baltimore Aquarium(and others) but the sub draws many to the harbor that generates revenue for the city. The entire harbor is a cash cow for the city and they know it. So, the Torsk gets a few dollars here and there. The Constellation gets the lions share of dollars for upkeep.

I'm saddened to hear that the Torsk isn't held in higher regard and given the respect it deserves. The U.S.S Requin was in disrepair in Tampa Florida. It's a Tench Class Submarine and had been commissioned after sea trials and was on it's way to the pacific fleet when japan surrendered in WW2. The Requin was one of the subs to join in the search for the USS Scorpion when it went missing in May of 1968.

Quote:
Preservation efforts


On 17 June 1972 Requin was transferred to a non-profit memorial foundation in Tampa, Florida, and docked in the Hillsborough River adjacent to Curtis Hixon Hall and the Tampa Museum of Art, across the river from the University of Tampa, as a tourist attraction. She remained in this role until 1986, when the non-profit organization responsible for the submarine folded due to insolvency and Requin was closed down due to lack of funding and support. With the exception of briefly reopening in 1988, she essentially remained abandoned at the pier for the subsequent four years.
On 21 February 1990 Senator John Heinz introduced Senate Bill S.2151, which allowed Requin to be transferred as an exhibit for the Carnegie Science Center in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. On 24 May Requin was towed to Tampa Shipyard for dry docking and hull repairs, in preparation for her move to Pittsburgh. On 7 August she left International Ship Repair in Tampa under tow to Baton Rouge, Louisiana where, on 11 August, she was lifted onto barges and began her ride up the Mississippi River and Ohio River to Pittsburgh. On 4 September Requin arrived at the Carnegie Science Center, and on 20 October Requin was dedicated as a memorial and museum exhibit, and opened for tours.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Requin_(SS-481)

The Submarine is in excellent shape and well supported and regarded and most view the Requin as the crown jewel for the Carnegie Science Center . I wish the Torsk was given the same consideration.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

I'm saddened to hear that the Torsk isn't held in higher regard and given the respect it deserves.

Some of it has to do with politics. Like anything else...it's all dollars and makes no sense.

[Buddahaid]

Glad to see the old girl back from the beauty parlor and I like seeing the boat in it's natural element, showing surface silhouette, and line.

[CaptBones]

Well, I don't mean to sound at all "disrespectful" to either the Pampanito, Torsk or Requin, but there is one surviving USN WWII Fleet boat that stands above all others still surviving...the Silversides (SS 236), in Muskegon MI. In the water and very much in the same condition as when she "made her name", along with her sisters Wahoo and Trigger. She doesn't get nearly the attention that those other boats get, that are being preserved in more frequently visited big-city tourist traps...er, I mean tourist attractions...of course.

She is lucky, like Requin, in that she rests in fresh water; but they could all benefit from use of impressed current cathodic protection cables. Unfortunately, that is expensive and also a bit unsightly and could possibly present a hazard to unwary and/or unwitting guests.

If "push comes to shove" someday and any/all of those still afloat must be removed from the water to be preserved, let's hope they are placed in a setting like U-995, U-505 or the Drum (SS 228). At least, they should not be treated as badly as the Batfish (SS 310).

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by CaptBones

Well, I don't mean to sound at all "disrespectful" to either the Pampanito, Torsk or Requin, but there is one surviving USN WWII Fleet boat that stands above all others still surviving...the Silversides (SS 236), in Muskegon MI. In the water and very much in the same condition as when she "made her name", along with her sisters Wahoo and Trigger. She doesn't get nearly the attention that those other boats get, that are being preserved in more frequently visited big-city tourist traps...er, I mean tourist attractions...of course.

She is lucky, like Requin, in that she rests in fresh water; but they could all benefit from use of impressed current cathodic protection cables. Unfortunately, that is expensive and also a bit unsightly and could possibly present a hazard to unwary and/or unwitting guests.

If "push comes to shove" someday and any/all of those still afloat must be removed from the water to be preserved, let's hope they are placed in a setting like U-995, U-505 or the Drum (SS 228). At least, they should not be treated as badly as the Batfish (SS 310).

Your comments were not disrespectful in any way, CaptBones . In fact, you are making the same argument as the rest of us that ships, vessels and submarines with a distinguished past should be preserved. The Submarine Requin I mentioned never fired a weapon in anger during WW2.

Silversides, a Gato class Submarine, in contrast, was highly decorated.

Quote: Awards

Silversides received twelve battle stars for World War II service, and was awarded one Presidential Unit Citation for cumulative action over four patrols. She is officially credited with sinking 23 ships, the third-most of any allied World War II submarine, behind only the USS Tang and USS Tautog, according to JANAC figures. The tonnage of the ships sunk by Silversides amounted to 90,080 tons, ranking among the top five for tonnage sunk by an American submarine during the war. Judged by the Joint Army-Navy Assessment Committee (JANAC), Silversides has the most prolific combat record of any still-extant American submarine. The Silversides underwent it's final patrol , number 13 and 14th between March – July 1945

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Silversides_(SS-236)

Like you said, if funds can be raised, these ships should be in enclosures to protect them from the elements. It still bothers many that the Carrier Enterprise ( CV-6 ) was not preserved as well. The " Big E " was the most decorated ship of WW2, earning 20 battle stars, A Presidential Unit Citation and a Navy Unit Commendation. Efforts should be made or maintained to preserve ships ( Subs ) like the Silversides, Batfish, Pampanito, Torsk and other distinguished ships not only to preserve a piece of history but more so as a testament to the courage and sacrifices of the men who crewed them. These ships are veterans too.


Thanks CaptBones for pointing out the distinguished history of the USS Silversides

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

Good point and your probably right but there's a little money involved here as well. The sub is moored directly behind the SS Jeremiah O'brien Liberty Ship; creating a lucrative 1-2 punch for enthusiasts to tour both: at $20 a head...each along famed Fisherman's Wharf. With proper reserve funds for a refit every 7-10 years and the more than adequate drydock facilities of the Bay Area it's $till a better arrangement and in a proper setting. It opened for tours in 1982 and attracts more than 100,000 (U do the mathematic$!!?) visitors a year. This is its fifth time in dry-dock, and this visit finally happened after $200,000 was secured in a National Maritime Heritage Grant. The funds come from scrap metal sales as ships in the Mothball Fleet in Suisun Bay are dismantled. Considering they're sanding the sanitary tank and replacing the torpedo gaskets for the first time...it's a happy ship. <Said Suisun Mothball fleet, just 50 miles NE, over my boat's stowed whisker-pole: Down to about eight ships now. The vessels' old lead-based flaking rust & hull-paint has created a decades-old considerable toxic-environmental mess; so the demise of old cargo ships is not a bad thing, in addition to helping preserve the USS Pampanito.

That's what I was looking for ... I thought it was higher up into the Sacramento area. I saw a vision of these ships being scrapped in a floating dry dock, but now I see there are not that many left.

I wanted to build a shipyard right there on that same spot to build a new type of ship that would be so secret that no one could enter the ship yard unless they worked there. No roads in, no highway, perhaps a helio pad, but all supplies and workers would come from affair by barges and supply vessels and ferry's for the workers, because there would be no where to go eat the ship yard would supply all meals.

What to build that would be so top secret? Submarine tenders of the future full of submarine drones.

Darn now it's no secret: https://static.vesselfinder.net/imag...cc0ab35398.jpg

[Hitman]

Don't quote me on this, but IIRC the main reason to keep them in the water is to help them bear with their own weight (Very much like the whales). In the water you get corrosion and algae under the waterline, but on dry dock for a long period the hull suffers deformation because of its own weight and will never again be able to return to sea.

[August]

Originally Posted by Hitman

Don't quote me on this, but IIRC the main reason to keep them in the water is to help them bear with their own weight (Very much like the whales). In the water you get corrosion and algae under the waterline, but on dry dock for a long period the hull suffers deformation because of its own weight and will never again be able to return to sea.

Certainly makes sense. They're designed to float, not sit on blocks.