A couple newbie questions

[Revenant342]

Hey all, just got the game yesterday and am learning the ropes. I had a couple questions I was hoping someone would know the answer to:

First, what determines if you get kill credit or not? I put four torps into an Ise where the turrets sit hoping for a magazine kill, but she just developed a heavy list to Port and was still under power at full speed. I had to run from a half-dozen escorts closing on me and was looping back around on the task force for another run when all of a sudden her sonar contact drops off and gets replaced by a sunken ship icon. I checked my log and didn't see credit for it (SO MUCH TONNAGE! :/). Is it because I wasn't within visual range when she sank to confirm the kill?

Secondly, are Tankers (specifically Large Modern Tankers) really, really beefy for anyone else? Made a run on another task force and sank a Shokaku with a spread of four torps. On my way out I took a pair of snap-shots at a CVL and a Tanker with my stern torps. CVL exploded brilliantly with one hit to nowhere in particular, but the tanker survived a direct hit to her engine room and lost propulsion. She fell out of the formation and was adrift and heavily down by the stern, so I fired two more torps at her from long range. No visible effect from two direct hits admiships. I went in to finish her off with the deck gun and she ate about 40 rounds of HE to her tank deck without catching fire and 30 AP all along the waterline before finally dying. I've killed destroyers with less than that, not even counting torps. Is this right?

Finally, can anyone explain detection ranges to me? I think I have the sonar ranges down, with the split circle with the blind spot astern being passive hydrophones and the D in front of the ones that have it being active sonar, but what's the big, unbroken circle on the outside? I had assumed it was visual detection when you're surfaced, but every destroyer I've come across has made a bee-line for me the second I've gotten them tagged visually, even in the middle of a moonless night in a rainstorm. Makes it a pain to call in reports on convoys and task forces because the convoy is alerted the second I see them.

Speaking of which, and lastly, what's the chance of you actually getting backup from calling in a convoy or task force? I've seen it said that you can get air support or even allied ships to show up, but this has never actually happened for me. Is it even worth doing?

Thanks!

[Gray Lensman]

edit> I have no idea why I got this confused with SH3... Sheesh! Duh!

Ise should have cued me... It's a Jap ship

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Revenant342

Hey all, just got the game yesterday and am learning the ropes. I had a couple questions I was hoping someone would know the answer to:

First, what determines if you get kill credit or not? I put four torps into an Ise where the turrets sit hoping for a magazine kill, but she just developed a heavy list to Port and was still under power at full speed. I had to run from a half-dozen escorts closing on me and was looping back around on the task force for another run when all of a sudden her sonar contact drops off and gets replaced by a sunken ship icon. I checked my log and didn't see credit for it (SO MUCH TONNAGE! :/). Is it because I wasn't within visual range when she sank to confirm the kill?

Secondly, are Tankers (specifically Large Modern Tankers) really, really beefy for anyone else? Made a run on another task force and sank a Shokaku with a spread of four torps. On my way out I took a pair of snap-shots at a CVL and a Tanker with my stern torps. CVL exploded brilliantly with one hit to nowhere in particular, but the tanker survived a direct hit to her engine room and lost propulsion. She fell out of the formation and was adrift and heavily down by the stern, so I fired two more torps at her from long range. No visible effect from two direct hits admiships. I went in to finish her off with the deck gun and she ate about 40 rounds of HE to her tank deck without catching fire and 30 AP all along the waterline before finally dying. I've killed destroyers with less than that, not even counting torps. Is this right?

Finally, can anyone explain detection ranges to me? I think I have the sonar ranges down, with the split circle with the blind spot astern being passive hydrophones and the D in front of the ones that have it being active sonar, but what's the big, unbroken circle on the outside? I had assumed it was visual detection when you're surfaced, but every destroyer I've come across has made a bee-line for me the second I've gotten them tagged visually, even in the middle of a moonless night in a rainstorm. Makes it a pain to call in reports on convoys and task forces because the convoy is alerted the second I see them.

Speaking of which, and lastly, what's the chance of you actually getting backup from calling in a convoy or task force? I've seen it said that you can get air support or even allied ships to show up, but this has never actually happened for me. Is it even worth doing?

Thanks!

Wow! Megapost there. Let's break it down.

1. Yes, you must be able to see a sinking to get credit.

2. Tankers are the spawn of Satan when they're empty. If they're full of avgas all is well and you can read a book by them. But if they are empty they are besically two completely separate huls, one inside the other. You can hit 'em with torpedoes all day and they'll take their jolly time about sinking. With a deck gun? You're wasting your time! What you saw was typical of those accursed beasts.

3. The Japanese were wizards of night fighting. If radar wasn't evening the score they cleaned our clocks in every night action of the war. You just got to participate in the experience!

4. Ordering backup is a special captain's ability that not too many ever get to see. Personally I don't use it because no captain ever used such an arcade game kludge in the entire war. When they built U-Boat missions the devs went off the deep end with ridiculous, non-simulation arcade crap like the ability to call in air strikes. Give me a break! Show me one time that happened in World War II. Sub captains were lucky if they could persuade their own side not to shoot at them.

[fireftr18]

Welcome aboard Revenant342!

We're always glad to have newbies to make harras, er, I mean, help.

Credit for a kill. I've been confused about this since I started playing. Basically, if you are in sensor range, you get credit for a kill. You may even get credit when the ship sinks out of sensor range. Storms and rough seas have an effect on getting credit. You may have crippled a ship, but a rough sea dealt the final blow. There was one time, I had crippled a ship. Ready to launch another torpedo, then I saw in the periscope, an allied plane fly over and drop a bomb, thus sinking the ship. I didn't get credit.

Tankers and military ships. You can get lucky with the military ships and hit ammunition storage. With tankers, if you get them full, one torpedo should get it with a real pretty fireball. If the tanker is empty, then it may take 4 or 5 torps to sink it. Remember, a tanker is designed to hold liquid and still float.

Detection range. Your assumption is correct, but don't rely on the information. It is only an estimate.

The last question applies to the U-boat campaign. I don't play it, so I can't answer your question.

Now as newbie, you can go polish the lenses on the periscopes (the outside lenses).

[Aktungbby]

Revenant342! What has been overlooked is 'in ballast'; even when empty of petroleum products, an empty tanker has any amount of water taken aboard to compensate to stabilize the vessel in transit empty of a 'payload'. This actually causes much eco-damage in the world today when it is dumped. A tanker ''in ballast' full of water is hard to sink. Many U-boat commanders claimed tonnage from in ballast tankers that survived torpedo attacks from being in ballast. One such was the Kittanning, struck three times in one attack and surviving until 1965

The Kittanning (Master Raymond J.S. Chambers) had left port at 13.30 hours, but soon thereafter the third assistant engineer fell and seriously injured himself and the master decided to return to Cristobal. At 16.31 hours, just after the ship changed course back at 14.5 knots, a torpedo struck on the starboard side at the #6 tank. At 16.46 hours, a second torpedo hit the #7 tank on the same side abaft the midships house and the ship swung hard right. The explosions opened a hole 65 feet long and 20 feet high and flooded five tanks, causing a 35° list to starboard. At 17.00 hours, the ten officers, 39 crewmen and 25 armed guards (the ship was armed with one 5in, one 3in and eight 20mm guns) abandoned ship in four lifeboats, but two boats swamped in the choppy seas and squally weather. A coup de grâce, fired at 17.06 hours, struck on the port side at the #4 tank under the midship house, causing the tanker to right herself and float on an even keel. The U-boat had reported another torpedo fired at 18.49 hours, but it seems that it had missed.

In short, in SHV at least, the tankers are miserably hard to sink. I'm not sure about the realistic 'ballast' programming, but I look for easier prey.

[Revenant342]

Wow! Thanks for the great responses, guys!

I guess I've gotten some of the information for the various titles mixed up. I thought the contact sighting/air support mechanic was in the base WotP campaign. What's the point of radioing in convoy sightings, then? Does it give prestige?

As far as the kill credit question goes, by sensor range, do you mean sonar or visual? Because I did have the Ise as a sonar contact, but he was beyond visual range at periscope depth. However, the Shokaku I sank and got credit for went down while I was below periscope depth hiding from escorts. Is it some kind of max distance?

For tankers, I guess I'll just steer clear of them. The one I shot up was accompanying a task force out of a port in Borneo, though, so I assumed it was serving as an oiler and full of cargo fuel.

Finally, with the detection range, I'm often *well* beyond the outer circle, in rough seas at night. Still, every destroyer I run into comes charging at me instantly as soon as my crew makes a sighting, even from distances where I can't even make them out at max magnification. Seems odd, and at first I chalked it up to radar because the first few were all Akizukis, but then saw Fubukis doing the exact same thing. I've adjusted my strategies accordingly, but it seems off.

[Gray Lensman]

Sorry about the SH3 confusion above.

Originally Posted by Revenant342

Wow! Thanks for the great responses, guys!

... What's the point of radioing in convoy sightings, then? Does it give prestige?

I think it contributes to renown, which is your "currency" to purchase better equip. and/or sailors when in port.

<snip>

Finally, with the detection range, I'm often *well* beyond the outer circle, in rough seas at night. Still, every destroyer I run into comes charging at me instantly as soon as my crew makes a sighting, even from distances where I can't even make them out at max magnification. Seems odd, and at first I chalked it up to radar because the first few were all Akizukis, but then saw Fubukis doing the exact same thing. I've adjusted my strategies accordingly, but it seems off.

re:detection range and evasion tactics

In daylight I use the compass to draw a circle to show 6 miles. That seems to be the visual limits of land or ship based detection range. At night from experience it is usually around 8000 yards (4 miles). Now if its an air unit, I've been sighted as far as 7 miles if I'm broadside to the aircraft or maybe have the scope/air detection radar raised. Speed also matters, as the aircraft seems to be able to spot strong wakes.

If you spot an escort from let's say 5 to 6 miles and you're head on. DON'T TURN. Go to periscope depth THEN turn 90 degrees away. If you know for sure he saw you, use your sonar man to give you info on him coming at you. (the buttons that respond with Yes Sir, Sweeping). The sonar man will be telling you several things, but at first the most useful is range. While he's Long range, I'm usually down below or headed down below the temperature gradient headed out almost 90 from the incoming escort's track to get max separation from original location at Standard or Full Speed

As soon as the sonar man informs me he's at Medium range, (You have to constantly query him [hit the button]) I back off the speed to 2/3 (to reduce noise) and turn another 45 degrees away (basically 135 degrees from his incoming track to the original datum (the spot where he saw me go under). Once on track at 135 degrees, I back off the speed to 1/3 (4 knots on battery)

Using the above turn away procedure, quite often the escort never gets closer than medium range.

BUT, When/if the sonar man informs me he's at short range OR he stops to listen, drop the speed to 3 knots to get the engines down to 100 RPM and hit silent running, keeping your sub's tail pointed directly towards (nose headed away from) his sonar track.

If done right, he should never be able to locate you and he'll spend quite some time pounding the heck out of the datum point.

Oh yes, get in the habit of marking your datum point (your sub's location spot) immediately when you dive, so you have an on-map reference to where he's headed. This makes it easier to determine his course and using his sonar track gives you a pretty good idea where he's at along that course.

If playing the TMO Mod be wary of the area known as Bungo Suido near Kyushu. Bungo Pete hangs out there and he's extremely hard to shake off once he's on your track.

Hope this helps dealing with escorts.

[THEBERBSTER]

A Warm Welcome To The Subsim Community > Revenant342
Subsim <> How To Donate <> See The Benefits <> Support The Community
Highly Recommended SH4 > Webster’s GFO (Mini Mega Mod)

[Jimbuna]

Welcome to SubSim Revenant

[BarracudaUAK]

Originally Posted by Revenant342

...
Secondly, are Tankers (specifically Large Modern Tankers) really, really beefy for anyone else?
...

So far all the 'Large Modern' that I've got have taken 3 torps. 1 fore, 1 mid (under the superstructure), and 1 aft (around the funnel).

That's the best I've been able to get.
I had managed to get one with my last 2 torps, it was moving about 4kts, falling behind the convoy and escorts (one was staying behind listening, I was running deep).
When he was about 5 miles from both, I popped up, plugged him with about 6-7 shots from the DG (I got the "ship destroyed" message), then bugged out at flank speed 90deg from the convoys course.
All 3 DDs came charging to his location, but it was dark and slightly foggy so they missed me.

I've tried multiple locations, and 3 fore, mid, aft, is the best that I can get with the mk14 and similar torps. The Higher powered versions (forget the number at the moment) may be able to do it in 2.

Barracuda

[fireftr18]

Originally Posted by Revenant342

As far as the kill credit question goes, by sensor range, do you mean sonar or visual? Because I did have the Ise as a sonar contact, but he was beyond visual range at periscope depth. However, the Shokaku I sank and got credit for went down while I was below periscope depth hiding from escorts. Is it some kind of max distance?

In my experience, it's any kind of sensor. Visual, sonar, or radar. But there is a lot of variability.