Mission Report: Iran Strike

[Nukesub]

Ahoy shipmates. Its been awhile since I shared a mission report so I thought I would. This was done with RA 1.4 in a 688 FTIII boat.

The mission is to infiltrate the Persian gulf and launch a TLAM strike on a chemical weapons factory.

As soon as the mission started I deployed the TB-23 (starboard array) to almost half length and checked the broadband and narrow band. Mission intel told me to expect a kilo and had marked a potential patrol path. Right away I knew there was also a surface contact from the consistent active pings I was picking up somewhere between the 340 and 360 bearing. That would give me a nice clean track for later.

Scanning the bearings from about 330 to 180, I was able to quickly find a faint 50Hz line, almost certainly the expected kilo.

I came up to periscope depth and did a scan with the ESM. Looks like we had two helos. At the time it didn't occur to me but watching the replay afterwards taught me I need to think about it more. With two helos already deployed I should've thought about a potential sonobuoy net/field but the thought didn't cross my mind

I set a course for SSW and crept along at 6 knots, accumulating some good bearing data for my TMA solution. The constant pinging from the surface contact made it easy. I was on a lead course with him. Not the optimal firing solution. Checking my kilo contact I was also on a similar course. All of us were heading in a southerly direction. I came around to a NNW course to put a lag LOS between my two targets. At this point I double checked range. The surface contact was ~12.7nm away with a speed of 15 (had him on DEMON). The kilo was ~19.5nm away with no speed data (too far for DEMON) but within the max range of the ADCAP (21nm at 55kts per the in-game UNSI reference). Given my course, I fired the fish from the port tubes. The first fish found the surface contact and sank him. The second ran out of gas chasing the kilo.

After the noise in the water settled down and I was able to develop a second solution. The kilo appeared to be on the same course. Again, I was too far and the torp ran out of gas before he catch the kilo. In both previous cases though the torp did positively acquire him. Note that I've been doing 6kts this entire time. At this point I get an alarming surprise. I get two torpedo in the water warnings and 3 sharp high pitched pings from bearing 223. I make my course 180 from 223, kick it up to standard (not cavitating Chasly don't worry ) and go down to within 20 ft of the bottom and drop an active countermeasure. Strangely I don't hear any more pings and even more strangely I don't see any high speed screws on the narrowband or broadband (). After a few minutes I make a 90 degree turn to starboard from my current course. I reacquire the kilo, still far off and weak. I'm back on a lead course though (both of us now in the SSE direction). Suddenly, I get a report of 6 torps all at once. Again, I drop an active countermeasure and make a course 180 degrees from them at standard. I quickly stop though because once again I do not see these torps on either narrowband or broadband (I check with the arrays), sweeping the entire quadrant their LOBs were given on.

I go back to 6kts and put myself back on a SSW course. Once I get good bearing data on the lead course with him that I am on, I turn to the NNW (lag course now). I continue to get more bearing data and I wait till he is within 12nm. This time the torp should def have the range. Around this time I start getting active pinging again. I start to get alarmed but realize the torps must be very far off mark because I don't see them on any arrays broadband or narrowband. I continue to track the kilo and then launch on him. Minutes pass and I lose the wire and get a positive confirmation on the sunk kilo. The weird pinging has stopped. Still not sure what that was but either way I've cleared the way for my TLAM strike on the factory. I come to 125ft and 4kts. I save the game b/c I've had trouble with TLAM operation before. I try to set waypoints for each and leave the "Destruct range" at 0001 (i didn't realize what this meant). I launch all VLS tubes and the TLAMs disappear way short of the target....weird. I exit the game and read the RA weps manual.

From what I read and try to understand, it seems that if there are 4 waypoints with the last waypoint being over the target, then the Destruct Range should be set to 4. Well, I tried that too and the TLAMs started to dip and self destruct a few NM from the target. Damn. I finally gave up and launch by right clicking on the nav map and using the engage function. Even that was another bust because I didn't do enough damage with 6 TLAMs. Loaded it up again and loaded the 3 in stowage to the port tube nest and one in the starboard. Finally, using the nav map engage function I fired all TLAMs (VLS and tubes) and got 100% damage on the factory. The mission status gives 100% on the factory, ship, and kilo kill. I come down to 155 ft, set 12 kts and make for the exit line. Even when I cross it though I didn't get a mission complete message. Oh well. It was fun.

Some comments from watching the replay. The first torps that got dropped on me were by a helo. They actually were dropped literally right on top of my head but they were so close and they were snaking so they just kept going in front of me and away. Had no idea. Still confused b/c I don't remember seeing the torps on the broadband and I'm pretty sure I should have.

The second giant dump of torps, the 6 simultaneously were from a P-3 and were set to circle. Turns out though he dropped them too far away and none acquired me.

Lastly, the weird pinging I got near the end turned out to be a line of active sonobuoys. That would explain why I didn't see any torps on the broadband. It doesn't explain the first torp drop from the helo though. Maybe I just missed it in my panic to put distance between myself and the TIW bearing.

Hope everyone enjoyed. Please feel free to comment/critique!

[p7p8]

How you found Kilo 19 nm away?

[FPSchazly]

Originally Posted by p7p8

How you found Kilo 19 nm away?

I've recently experienced from the perspective of either being a Kilo or hunting a Kilo that above 3 or 4 knots, they get quite loud quite quickly. Did you ever find out the Kilo's speed, Nukesub?

[Nukesub]

Originally Posted by FPSchazly

I've recently experienced from the perspective of either being a Kilo or hunting a Kilo that above 3 or 4 knots, they get quite loud quite quickly. Did you ever find out the Kilo's speed, Nukesub?

No, never got close enough to get him on the DEMON. I launched the fish that caught him at ~12NM (checked afterward my solution was good )

[Nukesub]

Originally Posted by p7p8

How you found Kilo 19 nm away?

Yes. As I said it was very faint. Also in hindsight, I thought he was going 5kts just as a guess but if i could see him from ~19nm away then he was probably going in neighborhood of 10 to 15 kts, kicking it up and trying to get to his patrol area/corridor. And in that case, my assumed speed was bad

[FPSchazly]

Nice write up! I would say that you can most certainly cavitate when a torpedo is coming after you!

I couldn't help but notice you said the Kilo was in range of the Mark 48 at ~19 nmi when your torpedo has a max range of ~21 nmi. 21 nmi is the torpedo's maximum running range but that is not equivalent to your maximum engage range. If you assume the Kilo is going to run away, your maximum engage range is effectively a lot shorter than the torpedo's running range. Check out this video I made about it a long time ago:

Basically, for a Kilo, your maximum engage range is ~7.5 nmi (with Mark 48 at 55 knots and Kilo at 20 knots). This is the distance at which the Kilo can never outrun the torpedo (excluding maneuvering and countermeasures). However, this can probably be increased by a reasonable amount due to how RA has changed the TIW modeling of Dangerous Waters.

Unfortunately, the 688I is becoming outdated tech. 6 knots is likely to have caused you some trouble. A Seawolf or a Virginia can run around at 6 knots+ easily but with the 688I, I would stay around 3-4 knots.

Where is this mission located? It sounds fun

[p7p8]

Originally Posted by FPSchazly

Unfortunately, the 688I is becoming outdated tech. 6 knots is likely to have caused you some trouble. A Seawolf or a Virginia can run around at 6 knots+ easily but with the 688I, I would stay around 3-4 knots.

688i Flt III going 3-4 knots - hmm, it is wasting advanteges of SSN.
1) At low speed TA will be scratch the bottom (Persian Gulf is shallow water)
2) You are still much louder than any SSK

[FPSchazly]

Originally Posted by p7p8

688i Flt III going 3-4 knots - hmm, it is wasting advanteges of SSN.
1) At low speed TA will be scratch the bottom (Persian Gulf is shallow water)
2) You are still much louder than any SSK

Yeah, it will scrape, but you don't need much more than 1/4-1/3 of the full length out to get full acuity.

This second point needs to be quantified. I hope to do that at some point but yes in general the SSN will be louder than the SSK at low speeds, but there are a lot more factors to that when specifics are introduced such as specific speeds and class comparisons. But the 688I is noticeably louder than a Seawolf (that data will be published soon).

Either way, it is tricky with sonobuoy fields. There's no way to really know if they are there (you may be able to see them with HF sonar but it may be too late at that point). Going as slow as the mission dictates is just to mitigate risk.

[Nukesub]

Originally Posted by FPSchazly

Nice write up! I would say that you can most certainly cavitate when a torpedo is coming after you!

I couldn't help but notice you said the Kilo was in range of the Mark 48 at ~19 nmi when your torpedo has a max range of ~21 nmi. 21 nmi is the torpedo's maximum running range but that is not equivalent to your maximum engage range. If you assume the Kilo is going to run away, your maximum engage range is effectively a lot shorter than the torpedo's running range. Check out this video I made about it a long time ago:

Basically, for a Kilo, your maximum engage range is ~7.5 nmi (with Mark 48 at 55 knots and Kilo at 20 knots). This is the distance at which the Kilo can never outrun the torpedo (excluding maneuvering and countermeasures). However, this can probably be increased by a reasonable amount due to how RA has changed the TIW modeling of Dangerous Waters.

Unfortunately, the 688I is becoming outdated tech. 6 knots is likely to have caused you some trouble. A Seawolf or a Virginia can run around at 6 knots+ easily but with the 688I, I would stay around 3-4 knots.

Where is this mission located? It sounds fun

Cavitate as a reaction on a TIW though? This mission has me thinking, before you drop all stops and ring the flank bell, you should make sure you can see the torps on at least the narrowband towed (and make sure it isn't showing up on any arrays with a smaller range). The reason I say this is because you might get a TIW from an airdrop that is off by 5+ NMs and then you just give away your position with a knee-jerk cavitation run. Just me thinking outloud here after reading your response. Maybe an airdrop of 5+ NM error is a little too optimistic :P

Good point on the difference between max range and engage range, I'll take a look at the video. Also thought I'd comment, maybe if I'd ran the torp at low speed it would've had enough fuel by the time it enabled to catch it? Because he wouldn't have heard it till it was much closer to him....I think.

How has RA changed the TIW? I know not of what you speak! But I am interested!

You think 6kts is too noisey?! Even at ranges between 10 to 15 NMs? Wow. Didn't think that. I hate creeping along at 3kts because it takes ages to make turns and you gotta wait even longer for the towed. Just adds time to getting rid of ambiguous contacts and changing from lead/lag courses. Even the 688I huh...Dang...I like that boat

The mission is in the Persian Gulf. I DLed it from Subguru DW Scenarios, its by Wargamer Scott.

[FPSchazly]

Originally Posted by Nukesub

Cavitate as a reaction on a TIW though? This mission has me thinking, before you drop all stops and ring the flank bell, you should make sure you can see the torps on at least the narrowband towed (and make sure it isn't showing up on any arrays with a smaller range). The reason I say this is because you might get a TIW from an airdrop that is off by 5+ NMs and then you just give away your position with a knee-jerk cavitation run. Just me thinking outloud here after reading your response. Maybe an airdrop of 5+ NM error is a little too optimistic :P

Good point on the difference between max range and engage range, I'll take a look at the video. Also thought I'd comment, maybe if I'd ran the torp at low speed it would've had enough fuel by the time it enabled to catch it? Because he wouldn't have heard it till it was much closer to him....I think.

How has RA changed the TIW? I know not of what you speak! But I am interested!

You think 6kts is too noisey?! Even at ranges between 10 to 15 NMs? Wow. Didn't think that. I hate creeping along at 3kts because it takes ages to make turns and you gotta wait even longer for the towed. Just adds time to getting rid of ambiguous contacts and changing from lead/lag courses. Even the 688I huh...Dang...I like that boat

The mission is in the Persian Gulf. I DLed it from Subguru DW Scenarios, its by Wargamer Scott.

Yes, of course, make sure the torp is near to you/coming after you before you increase speed drastically haha. But if you know it's coming after you, then yeah, juice it up! I would say if you're in "knife fight" range, though, and you get the torp off first, you should expect that return snapshot and I would just start evading as if you're expecting that return snapshot.

Running the torp at a slow speed would help, yes. Trying to quantify that could be tricky

Yes, in RA, TIW is not an automatic thing at (any) distance like in stock Dangerous Waters. In RA, the TIW is more of a last-resort thing. If sonar is calling it out to you, chances are it may be too late to evade effectively. So, you have to be ever vigilant in the sonar station looking for torps.

6 knots in a 688I is getting a little too noisy. For reference, the Virginia at about 10 knots makes as much noise as the 688I at about 6 knots. Don't get me wrong, 688I is still formidable, but you have to have a little more patience with the ol' girl. Your towed is probably good at 1/4-1/3 length, as well. Especially in a littoral situation, you're only going to get so much acuity.

[Nukesub]

Originally Posted by FPSchazly

Yes, of course, make sure the torp is near to you/coming after you before you increase speed drastically haha. But if you know it's coming after you, then yeah, juice it up! I would say if you're in "knife fight" range, though, and you get the torp off first, you should expect that return snapshot and I would just start evading as if you're expecting that return snapshot.

Running the torp at a slow speed would help, yes. Trying to quantify that could be tricky

Yes, in RA, TIW is not an automatic thing at (any) distance like in stock Dangerous Waters. In RA, the TIW is more of a last-resort thing. If sonar is calling it out to you, chances are it may be too late to evade effectively. So, you have to be ever vigilant in the sonar station looking for torps.

6 knots in a 688I is getting a little too noisy. For reference, the Virginia at about 10 knots makes as much noise as the 688I at about 6 knots. Don't get me wrong, 688I is still formidable, but you have to have a little more patience with the ol' girl. Your towed is probably good at 1/4-1/3 length, as well. Especially in a littoral situation, you're only going to get so much acuity.

Regarding the snapshot, yes def. clear the datum! Or just after firing in general.

So...I had no idea that is how TIW works in RA. So, no more automatic TIW whenever anyone launches a torp. You have to actually observe the transient on the broadband or your sonarman will call it out when its too late
Good to know

I'll keep your comment about the 6kts in mind and make my patrol speed 3 kts then! Lookin' forward to your next experiment/data video!