British Jury Faults Police Over 1989 Hillsborough Soccer Stadium Deaths

Commander Wallace · 04-26-16, 08:25 AM

Quote : The verdict, which capped the longest case heard by a jury in British legal history, comes more than two years after the inquest began, on April 1, 2014, and after a decades-long push by relatives, fans and the Liverpool club for a full accounting.

When the 2012 report was published, Prime Minister David Cameron of Britain issued a government apology to the families of the victims, saying that they had suffered a double injustice: “The injustice of the appalling events, the failure of the state to protect their loved ones and the indefensible wait to get to the truth,” and “the injustice of the denigration of the deceased — that they were somehow at fault for their own deaths.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/27/wo...ster.html?_r=0

Aktungbby · 04-26-16, 09:34 AM

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-26765007

Quote:

The inquest was not a criminal trial, meaning that it does not confer civil damages or penalties, and that it is simply a finding of fact. After the verdict, however, the Crown Prosecution Service said it was evaluating whether to press charges in light of the findings, and legal experts said that such a case would most likely focus on Mr. Duckenfield.
During the inquest Mr. Duckenfield described how he “froze” during the vital moments when police officers responded to the overcrowding threat and did not foresee that his failure to close a tunnel leading to crowded pens after a large exit gate was opened would prove fatal.
In the days after the deaths, efforts by the police to assign responsibility to soccer fans culminated in a story in the British newspaper The Sun under the headline “The Truth.” It blamed Liverpool fans for bad behavior and said they had attacked rescue workers, urinated on police officers and pickpocketed victims. Mr. Duckenfield, who is now 71, left the police force at the age of 46 and retired to the south coast, where, according to the British news media, he disappeared largely from the public view.

Rockstar · 04-26-16, 09:42 AM

I cant believe what seems like the killer accusing the victim, or in this case British police, for making him cut their throat

Oberon · 04-26-16, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I cant believe what seems like the killer accusing the victim, or in this case British police, for making him cut their throat

I think you got that a tad backwards mate, the police aren't the victims here, nor honestly do I think there was any malice on their behalf, just a catastrophic series of mistakes which lead to 96 dead people.
The most damning part of it though, in my eyes, is the attempted cover up that took place afterwards.
Ultimately, as the commanding officer involved in the organisation and safety of the crowd at Hillsborough the blame lies on the shoulders of Duckenfield, if he had not lied in the aftermath of the disaster and tried to cover up the mistakes made I might have a bit more sympathy for him, but at least he's coming clean now.

Jimbuna · 04-26-16, 01:14 PM

Truth = Justice

Oberon · 04-26-16, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Truth = Justice

Do you think that Duckenfield should be charged with negligence manslaughter?

Jimbuna · 04-26-16, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Do you think that Duckenfield should be charged with negligence manslaughter?

I'll let the CPS make that decision but quite possibly as there is no statute of limitations in place.

Commander Wallace · 04-26-16, 07:28 PM

When I posted this thread, It was my hope that those in the forum from the U.K might have a better insight into the court proceedings and the events leading up to that.

Whatever the cause, the Hillsborough event which resulted in 96 deaths was still tragic. If reports of the cover up are accurate, there should be some punishment for the concealment.

Oberon · 04-26-16, 09:14 PM

From what I can tell, in the immediate aftermath of the tragedy the main policy was to blame the fans, the police did their best to offload any blame from them onto the fans and the media also helped continue that story.
Any attempts to disprove that story generally wound up being pushed into the long grass, until the 20th anniversary when the then justice secretary Andy Burnham called on all agencies to release the documents which had not been made available to the inquiry in 1989, that in turn lead to the formation of an independent panel which ruled in 2012 that the fans were not responsible for the deaths and that attempts had been made by the authorities to cover up details. That ruling lead to a new inquest, the results of which are in the opening post of this thread.
Interestingly, the only newspaper not to lead with the results on the front page this morning is 'The Sun' which got into hot water when it ran a headline titled 'The Truth' back in '89 which accused the fans of beating up people attempting CPR, pick-pockets robbing corpses and other fans urinating on the police, which was proven to be falsifications and slurs, in fact the fans were generally seen to aid the emergency services in many circumstances such as in carrying stretchers off the pitch.
The Sun has never done well in Liverpool ever since, and I doubt that the decision to omit the judgement from todays headlines will do much to change that.

Oberon · 04-26-16, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I'll let the CPS make that decision but quite possibly as there is no statute of limitations in place.

A fair call, I think personally that it would be unfair to place all the blame on Duckenfields doorstep since the design of the stadium itself didn't help, and if one good thing came out of Hillsborough it was the investigation and redesign of football stadiums. However, he himself admits that the buck stopped with him, so if it is so desired a case could well be made.
I think though, for the families, as you say, the justice was the truth and the clearing of the names of those who died and those who didn't.

Jimbuna · 04-27-16, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

A fair call, I think personally that it would be unfair to place all the blame on Duckenfields doorstep since the design of the stadium itself didn't help, and if one good thing came out of Hillsborough it was the investigation and redesign of football stadiums. However, he himself admits that the buck stopped with him, so if it is so desired a case could well be made.
I think though, for the families, as you say, the justice was the truth and the clearing of the names of those who died and those who didn't.

Rgr that

Catfish · 04-27-16, 08:10 AM

at Oberon.

Have been in difficult situations myself, but thank god never in such. You often think about yourself as being calm and staying 'cool' in certain situations, but what happens in reality (when you have to prove what you think about yourself) will sometimes.. surprise you. I found 'Lord Jim' by Joseph Conrad to be a very good example.

When it gets tight you often do not have the oversight nor the experience to act perfectly, or even 'ok'. Don't know if i expressed this right.. I would not say that Duckenfield is guilty or to be held responsible alone, although what happened was covered up. I can only imagine what he has gone through in his isolation, all those years.
Most important thing is to learn not to misjudge a 'situation' again.

04-26-16, 08:25 AM	#1
Commander Wallace Navy Seal Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Under the sea in an Octupus garden in the shade Posts: 5,294 Downloads: 366 Uploads: 0	British Jury Faults Police Over 1989 Hillsborough Soccer Stadium Deaths Quote : The verdict, which capped the longest case heard by a jury in British legal history, comes more than two years after the inquest began, on April 1, 2014, and after a decades-long push by relatives, fans and the Liverpool club for a full accounting. When the 2012 report was published, Prime Minister David Cameron of Britain issued a government apology to the families of the victims, saying that they had suffered a double injustice: “The injustice of the appalling events, the failure of the state to protect their loved ones and the indefensible wait to get to the truth,” and “the injustice of the denigration of the deceased — that they were somehow at fault for their own deaths.” http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/27/wo...ster.html?_r=0

04-26-16, 01:14 PM	#5
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,473 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Truth = Justice __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

04-27-16, 08:10 AM	#12
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,765 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	at Oberon. Have been in difficult situations myself, but thank god never in such. You often think about yourself as being calm and staying 'cool' in certain situations, but what happens in reality (when you have to prove what you think about yourself) will sometimes.. surprise you. I found 'Lord Jim' by Joseph Conrad to be a very good example. When it gets tight you often do not have the oversight nor the experience to act perfectly, or even 'ok'. Don't know if i expressed this right.. I would not say that Duckenfield is guilty or to be held responsible alone, although what happened was covered up. I can only imagine what he has gone through in his isolation, all those years. Most important thing is to learn not to misjudge a 'situation' again. __________________ >^..^<)))>{ All generalizations are wrong. Last edited by Catfish; 04-27-16 at 08:56 AM.*

04-26-16, 09:42 AM	#3
Rockstar In the Brig Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I cant believe what seems like the killer accusing the victim, or in this case British police, for making him cut their throat

04-26-16, 07:28 PM	#8
Commander Wallace Navy Seal Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Under the sea in an Octupus garden in the shade Posts: 5,294 Downloads: 366 Uploads: 0	When I posted this thread, It was my hope that those in the forum from the U.K might have a better insight into the court proceedings and the events leading up to that. Whatever the cause, the Hillsborough event which resulted in 96 deaths was still tragic. If reports of the cover up are accurate, there should be some punishment for the concealment.

04-26-16, 09:14 PM	#9
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	From what I can tell, in the immediate aftermath of the tragedy the main policy was to blame the fans, the police did their best to offload any blame from them onto the fans and the media also helped continue that story. Any attempts to disprove that story generally wound up being pushed into the long grass, until the 20th anniversary when the then justice secretary Andy Burnham called on all agencies to release the documents which had not been made available to the inquiry in 1989, that in turn lead to the formation of an independent panel which ruled in 2012 that the fans were not responsible for the deaths and that attempts had been made by the authorities to cover up details. That ruling lead to a new inquest, the results of which are in the opening post of this thread. Interestingly, the only newspaper not to lead with the results on the front page this morning is 'The Sun' which got into hot water when it ran a headline titled 'The Truth' back in '89 which accused the fans of beating up people attempting CPR, pick-pockets robbing corpses and other fans urinating on the police, which was proven to be falsifications and slurs, in fact the fans were generally seen to aid the emergency services in many circumstances such as in carrying stretchers off the pitch. The Sun has never done well in Liverpool ever since, and I doubt that the decision to omit the judgement from todays headlines will do much to change that.