Correct/missing planes in SH4

[Leandros]

A year or so ago I reported missing and/or wrongly designated US aircraft types in SH4. Anybody been into that in the meantime?

Fred

[nrnstraswa]

Yes I would love to see proper planes in SH4. The F2A Buffalo is ok for 1941, but the F4F Wildcat should replace it as the US fighter.

[De Ruyter]

Originally Posted by Leandros

A year or so ago I reported missing and/or wrongly designated US aircraft types in SH4. Anybody been into that in the meantime?

Fred

Anyone notice the American Lancaster in the first training mission? I have been wondering about that, apparently that is not the only one.

there was much talk of this when the game first came out, with all of the sh series in fact.

the problem with missing planes and inaccurate map labels and features is mostly due to copy write infringement issues and permissions to use them wasn't allowed.

the designs and 3d models of these planes are copy write protected and you have to pay to use them so that is why a lot is missing or what is in the game is different from how it really was.

if you were to get ahold of these 3d models and share them, you could be subject to getting sued over it.

just putting that info out there for those who did not know.

not saying something cant be done with some of them, just be careful with uploading anything like that until you are sure its not protected.

[Barkerov]

I am all for having the game as historically accurate as possible but since aircraft behave so unrealistically already (for example a 4 engine bomber pulling up ridiculously sharp from a dive bombing run) it matters little to me if they are the correct type or not.
All I need to know about aircraft in silent hunter is that they are there and when they are around I make myself scarce.

[Leandros]

Originally Posted by De Ruyter

Anyone notice the American Lancaster in the first training mission? I have been wondering about that, apparently that is not the only one.

That was one of the planes I reacted to, also many faulty insignias, etc. for the period in other plane types. Last time I checked even the SBD Dauntless was missing - in the Pacific! Strange thing is that some of the missing types actually exist in SH3.

PBY's with British insignias (Catalinas, really).

I tried to transfer some of these into SH4. It worked but I wasn't able to make them behave properly.

My interest in this stems from creating cool life-like scenarios, lately as an aid to illustrate my "Saving MacArthur" book project.

An example below:

1, 2: Seaplane carrier IJN Chitose torpedoed outside Davao by USN Vindicators. Should have been the missing Devastator.

3: USS Bagley passing the sinking IJN Nagara in Bangka Sound, north-east Celebes

4. The SBD Dauntless is missing (my Hobby Master 1/72 diecast model).

Fred

[De Ruyter]

Originally Posted by Leandros

[INDENT][INDENT][INDENT]That was one of the planes I reacted to, also many faulty insignias, etc. for the period in other plane types. Last time I checked even the SBD Dauntless was missing - in the Pacific! Strange thing is that some of the missing types actually exist in SH3.

PBY's with British insignias (Catalinas, really).

I tried to transfer some of these into SH4. It worked but I wasn't able to make them behave properly.

My interest in this stems from creating cool life-like scenarios, lately as an aid to illustrate my "Saving MacArthur" book project.

An example below:

1, 2: Seaplane carrier IJN Chitose torpedoed outside Davao by USN Vindicators. Should have been the missing Devastator.

3: USS Bagley passing the sinking IJN Nagara in Bangka Sound, north-east Celebes

4. The SBD Dauntless is missing (my Hobby Master 1/72 diecast model).

Fred

Yeah, the Vindicator was a dive bomber. At least the British did have Catalinas. I don't know much about the Vindicator, maybe it could carry torpedoes as well.

[Rockin Robbins]

I thought this was a submarine simulator.

As a sub captain my rule is "never be seen by an airplane." Well I'm bigger than they are, so I can never let them get close enough to identify, much less see insignia, etc. I really don't care if they are bomb carrying seagulls, I'm diving to radar depth and waiting for them to exit visual range.

Therefore I don't care if they got the planes right or not. It has no bearing on the quality of the submarine simulation. What something I will never see looks like is not a concern of mine.

Has anyone checked to see if the Empire State building has the correct number of floors in SH4? That is just as relevant, you know!

[Leandros]

Originally Posted by De Ruyter

Yeah, the Vindicator was a dive bomber. At least the British did have Catalinas. I don't know much about the Vindicator, maybe it could carry torpedoes as well.

My point is that the standard USN torpedo bomber at the start of the war was the TBD Devastator, later relieved by the Avenger. And, yes, the British did have the Catalina - PBY in the US vocabulary. Not many of these served in the Pacific, though.

Fred

[Leandros]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Has anyone checked to see if the Empire State building has the correct number of floors in SH4? That is just as relevant, you know!

Where in the Pacific is this building you're quoting........?

Fred

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

I thought this was a submarine simulator.

As a sub captain my rule is "never be seen by an airplane." Well I'm bigger than they are, so I can never let them get close enough to identify, much less see insignia, etc. I really don't care if they are bomb carrying seagulls, I'm diving to radar depth and waiting for them to exit visual range.

Therefore I don't care if they got the planes right or not. It has no bearing on the quality of the submarine simulation. What something I will never see looks like is not a concern of mine.

Has anyone checked to see if the Empire State building has the correct number of floors in SH4? That is just as relevant, you know!

to each his own RR

everyone has their own likes and dislikes and just worrying about things under the water is only half of the game environment so weather its ship skins or land details or planes, whatever make things look better and act more realistically the better in my view.

I hate planes flying sideways and going in directions the plane isn't pointed to go in and would love to see these things have better AI control, even if I never go up to see them, I still would love them to work and look right.

watching how planes move in the game is really pathetic AI and looks more like a plane on a stick being moved around rather then one that is actually flying

[De Ruyter]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

I thought this was a submarine simulator.

As a sub captain my rule is "never be seen by an airplane." Well I'm bigger than they are, so I can never let them get close enough to identify, much less see insignia, etc. I really don't care if they are bomb carrying seagulls, I'm diving to radar depth and waiting for them to exit visual range.

Therefore I don't care if they got the planes right or not. It has no bearing on the quality of the submarine simulation. What something I will never see looks like is not a concern of mine.

Has anyone checked to see if the Empire State building has the correct number of floors in SH4? That is just as relevant, you know!

To quote Cary Grant, "I'd rather dive for a hundred birds than not dive for one airplane.
As far as how relevant it is, I like my games to be realistic. Would you rather have a generic plane model for everybody, or see a Perry-class frigate in the game? I understand that it does not matter that much as far as gameplay goes, but I would rather encounter realistic units. If it is less of an issue for you, that is fine, whatever floats your boat (pun intended). Mine is not sunk because of it, but I am one of those who likes a higher level of realism. And even though I will not usually see them, there may be a time when I am caught on the surface, and I do care about it then.

[ETR3(SS)]

Personally I think the lack of real aircraft and medals being a copyright issue, may or may not be a bs story. I think they didn't want to put the time and money required into that part of the game. There are countless other games, pre and post SH4, that didn't have this issue. The game was pretty lackluster when released, I myself put it back on the self for a couple of years and went back to SH3. Which is really saying something because I prefer the US over the U-Boats. Just not one of those die hard fan boys of them.

But so far as someone modding them into the game, that shouldn't be a problem at all. Even legally I can't foresee the copyright holder pursuing a few people over something so trivial at the end of the day.

[Leandros]

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

Personally I think the lack of real aircraft and medals being a copyright issue, may or may not be a bs story. I think they didn't want to put the time and money required into that part of the game. There are countless other games, pre and post SH4, that didn't have this issue. The game was pretty lackluster when released, I myself put it back on the self for a couple of years and went back to SH3. Which is really saying something because I prefer the US over the U-Boats. Just not one of those die hard fan boys of them.

But so far as someone modding them into the game, that shouldn't be a problem at all. Even legally I can't foresee the copyright holder pursuing a few people over something so trivial at the end of the day.

I'm not sure how the copyright issue came into this. Several of the planes I miss in SH4 are actually in SH3.

Fred

Originally Posted by Leandros

I'm not sure how the copyright issue came into this. Several of the planes I miss in SH4 are actually in SH3.

Fred

I know when someone was trying to add the super fortress, p-38 lightning and p-51 mustang, and a few others too, they ran into problems and weren't allowed to release any depictions or renderings of them without paying royalties $$$$, pretty much shut it all down.

IIRC the catalina was made british with a few changes to avoid such issues and claim it as a likeness but different enough so it could be used in the game.

if its already in the game its safe but if its not in there, all im saying is "some" companies wont let you depict their aircraft without paying $.

I would love to see everything that existed in the game, and done as realistic as can be depicted, I would download that in a second, but I just wanted to be sure anyone who wants to mod plane stuff, understand that in the past "someone" at the plane mfg had issues with a few planes being used.