A question about Authoritarianism

mapuc · 07-22-15, 01:01 PM

Earlier today the news showed us a video clip from USA

The video showed a car stopped by a police. The police standing beside the car on the drivers side-saying "Shall I use the "Stunner"(forgot the correct word) Later on this women hang her self in her cell.

A friend made a post about this on FB. and here he wrote.

"I agree that this policeman was to brutal in his acting, but why didn't this woman do what she was told ?"

I wondered when I read that. Are the American less Authoritarianism than we in Denmark and Sweden.

Heck here in Denmark or Sweden a person stat to jump up and down when the police gives the order to do so-most of them do.

Markus

The Enigma · 07-22-15, 01:10 PM

The description of what happened in that video is kind of a very short version.

I saw an officer acting very bully to the lady who was (as far as I know) legally in her rights.

He obviously didn't like the way she responded to his requests, but the law applies to all citizen, also to police men.

mapuc · 07-22-15, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Enigma

The description of what happened in that video is kind of a very short version.

I saw an officer acting very bully to the lady who was (as far as I know) legally in her rights.

He obviously didn't like the way she responded to his requests, but the law applies to all citizen, also to police men.

I didn't take that into account and I don't know if my FB-friend was doing the same not taking her rights into account when writting his post.

I admit my knowledge about which rights an American citiziens have is very low.

Markus

Jeff-Groves · 07-22-15, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

I admit my knowledge about which rights an American citiziens have is very low.

You've just passed the first test to be a Cop over here.

mapuc · 07-22-15, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

You've just passed the first test to be a Cop over here.

What !? does it not take more to be a policeman in the States ?

I was talking about these little small laws not the big one, like

Free Speech, free religion a.s.o(first amendment)

And

Second amendment

Markus

vienna · 07-22-15, 01:39 PM

The "full" video was released just a couple of hours ago; I wrote "full" because there is some dispute about just how "full" the video released actually is:

Quote:

The Austin Department of Public Safety released the 52-minute video from the July 10 traffic stop Tuesday night but now says it will release a DVD version of the footage because "some of the video that occurred during this conversation was affected in the upload" to the Internet, spokesman Tom Vinegar said in a statement.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/police-sand...ry?id=32615846

The video, released as "raw footage" shows some possible signs of looping and or inserts indicating possible editing rather than "raw footage". It is entirely possible the "flaws" are the result of some processing or upload errors (anyone who has done a good deal of video editing knows how artifacts can pop up in the process), so I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to the LEOs. However, there is still no excuse for the sort of bullying conduct shown by the officer, in any case...

<O>

Catfish · 07-22-15, 01:35 PM

Has the police the right to demand you put out your cigarette, make you leave the car, treat you like a criminal and incarcerate you, if you did not use the turn signals?

Heard a longer report on the radio today about this. The video is said to have been edited, by the police. And according to friends and relatives it is implausible that she committed suicide.

A bit of trigger-happy, a bit of frustration, a bit of illegal alien thinking, a bit of racism. Altogether this seems to describe perfectly all the latest police infringes we heard about.

Yes i know there are a hundred thousand cases where the police did it right, but of what we hear nothing.

Schroeder · 07-22-15, 01:37 PM

A burning cigarette is actually considered a weapon IIRC.

So yes, they are in their right to ask to put it out.

mapuc · 07-22-15, 01:45 PM

My friends my post was not really about rights it was if the American is more or less anti-authority.

E.g
A person has done something wrong and a police ask the person to step outside the car and this person refuse to do so-just because this person are anti-authority and it escalate.

Or the person haven't done anything wrong and therefor refuse to apply the policemans order.

Edit we can of course discuss this video in this thread.

Markus

Wolferz · 07-22-15, 02:31 PM

If you don't do what a LEO orders you to do, you risk getting your ass kicked.
BUT. always the big but, if the LEO makes a request, you are under no obligation to comply.
Since I was not there to witness this incident, I can neither confirm nor deny who was in the wrong. Though threatening to taser a driver for not putting out a cigarette seems a tad heavy handed. She's lucky she wasn't shot on the spot. Maybe the LEO thought it more prudent to wait until he had her in jail without the camera documenting everything. There are any number of ways around oversight devices.

This country has more than its fair share of criminals and psychopaths and unfortunately some of them made it into the ranks of law enforcement where they do their dirty deeds and get away with it more often than they should.

Onkel Neal · 07-22-15, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

Earlier today the news showed us a video clip from USA

The video showed a car stopped by a police. The police standing beside the car on the drivers side-saying "Shall I use the "Stunner"(forgot the correct word) Later on this women hang her self in her cell.

A friend made a post about this on FB. and here he wrote.

"I agree that this policeman was to brutal in his acting, but why didn't this woman do what she was told ?"

I wondered when I read that. Are the American less Authoritarianism than we in Denmark and Sweden.

Heck here in Denmark or Sweden a person stat to jump up and down when the police gives the order to do so-most of them do.

Markus

A question about Authoritarianism
The title of this thread seems very misleading.

mapuc · 07-23-15, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

A question about Authoritarianism
The title of this thread seems very misleading.

I know I couldn't find a better words

In danish it is called autoritetstro(Google translate)=Authoritarianism/authoritarian. There was also orthodox and some other words I thought they didn't fit in this discussion.

I also know Authoritarianism/authoritarian is far more than your police, it is the Firefighters a.s.o

My question was if the ordinary American is less authority than their Danish counterpart when it comes to the police.

And my Question was because of a friends comment on FB.

If any have thought my post is somehow negative against the American it is not-It's just a simple question about the ordinary Americans mentality to wards the Police force in USA.

Do you do exactly every thing the police say you shall do ?

Here a huge majority would do what the police order them to do.

Or there aren't any survey about this subject, so no one really know.

Oberon · 07-23-15, 12:48 PM

I think it would not be easy to find the right word to this question without inflaming opinion. Some people might say that Americans are less submissive than Europeans, but then that sounds like an insult to Europeans, but I think that by definition the US is less inclined to trust authority figures because of the rebellion against the 'tyrannical authority' of the UK.
Primarily though this mistrust is focused towards governance rather than law enforcement, the average American is likely to be more sympathetic towards a policeman than a politician, and most presidents are generally distrusted by whoever has the opposing viewpoint, sometimes to extremes.
Since the 1960s though, distrust of the police has increased, not just in the US but UK too, I think it started as an offshoot of the distrust of authoritarian figures, with the youth movement and it spread to their children and onwards. The police became seen less as your local neighbourhood 'Bobby' (or Officer McFriendly in the US) and more as the military arm of 'the establishment', the clashes between police/the Guard and anti-war protesters in the late sixties probably helped cement that reputation, especially with things like the Kent State shootings.
From there, really, the distrust of the police continued, with the polices reputation being damaged by incidents with the black community in the US and in the UK with corruption scandals and not really recovering from it.
It's a pity really, since it's the minority that ruin it for the majority, but in the media these days it's the minority who are focused on, to the detriment of the majority. That being said, if there wasn't some focus on the rotton parts then they'd be getting away with it, but it's finding the balance between getting rid of corruption within the force but not discrediting the entire force whilst doing so.

07-22-15, 01:01 PM	#1
mapuc CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 20,535 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	A question about Authoritarianism Earlier today the news showed us a video clip from USA The video showed a car stopped by a police. The police standing beside the car on the drivers side-saying "Shall I use the "Stunner"(forgot the correct word) Later on this women hang her self in her cell. A friend made a post about this on FB. and here he wrote. "I agree that this policeman was to brutal in his acting, but why didn't this woman do what she was told ?" I wondered when I read that. Are the American less Authoritarianism than we in Denmark and Sweden. Heck here in Denmark or Sweden a person stat to jump up and down when the police gives the order to do so-most of them do. Markus

07-22-15, 01:10 PM	#2
The Enigma Seer of visions Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Under the surface Posts: 2,315 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	The description of what happened in that video is kind of a very short version. I saw an officer acting very bully to the lady who was (as far as I know) legally in her rights. He obviously didn't like the way she responded to his requests, but the law applies to all citizen, also to police men. __________________

07-22-15, 01:35 PM	#7
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,765 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Has the police the right to demand you put out your cigarette, make you leave the car, treat you like a criminal and incarcerate you, if you did not use the turn signals? Heard a longer report on the radio today about this. The video is said to have been edited, by the police. And according to friends and relatives it is implausible that she committed suicide. A bit of trigger-happy, a bit of frustration, a bit of illegal alien thinking, a bit of racism. Altogether this seems to describe perfectly all the latest police infringes we heard about. Yes i know there are a hundred thousand cases where the police did it right, but of what we hear nothing. __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

07-22-15, 01:37 PM	#8
Schroeder Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Banana Republic of Germany Posts: 6,170 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	A burning cigarette is actually considered a weapon IIRC. So yes, they are in their right to ask to put it out. __________________ Putting Germ back into Germany.

07-22-15, 01:45 PM	#9
mapuc CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 20,535 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	My friends my post was not really about rights it was if the American is more or less anti-authority. E.g A person has done something wrong and a police ask the person to step outside the car and this person refuse to do so-just because this person are anti-authority and it escalate. Or the person haven't done anything wrong and therefor refuse to apply the policemans order. Edit we can of course discuss this video in this thread. Markus Last edited by mapuc; 07-22-15 at 01:52 PM.

07-22-15, 02:31 PM	#10
Wolferz Navy Seal Join Date: May 2007 Location: On a mighty quest for the Stick of Truth Posts: 5,963 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	If you don't do what a LEO orders you to do, you risk getting your ass kicked. BUT. always the big but, if the LEO makes a request, you are under no obligation to comply. Since I was not there to witness this incident, I can neither confirm nor deny who was in the wrong. Though threatening to taser a driver for not putting out a cigarette seems a tad heavy handed. She's lucky she wasn't shot on the spot. Maybe the LEO thought it more prudent to wait until he had her in jail without the camera documenting everything. There are any number of ways around oversight devices. This country has more than its fair share of criminals and psychopaths and unfortunately some of them made it into the ranks of law enforcement where they do their dirty deeds and get away with it more often than they should. __________________ Tomorrow never comes

07-23-15, 12:48 PM	#13
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	I think it would not be easy to find the right word to this question without inflaming opinion. Some people might say that Americans are less submissive than Europeans, but then that sounds like an insult to Europeans, but I think that by definition the US is less inclined to trust authority figures because of the rebellion against the 'tyrannical authority' of the UK. Primarily though this mistrust is focused towards governance rather than law enforcement, the average American is likely to be more sympathetic towards a policeman than a politician, and most presidents are generally distrusted by whoever has the opposing viewpoint, sometimes to extremes. Since the 1960s though, distrust of the police has increased, not just in the US but UK too, I think it started as an offshoot of the distrust of authoritarian figures, with the youth movement and it spread to their children and onwards. The police became seen less as your local neighbourhood 'Bobby' (or Officer McFriendly in the US) and more as the military arm of 'the establishment', the clashes between police/the Guard and anti-war protesters in the late sixties probably helped cement that reputation, especially with things like the Kent State shootings. From there, really, the distrust of the police continued, with the polices reputation being damaged by incidents with the black community in the US and in the UK with corruption scandals and not really recovering from it. It's a pity really, since it's the minority that ruin it for the majority, but in the media these days it's the minority who are focused on, to the detriment of the majority. That being said, if there wasn't some focus on the rotton parts then they'd be getting away with it, but it's finding the balance between getting rid of corruption within the force but not discrediting the entire force whilst doing so.