What is going on in Poland ?!

[Catfish]

For all that can be seen they are on the way into a dictatorship, wth has happened there?

[Oberon]

Democracy gone very very wrong.
Still, that's what happens in times like these, crisis takes hold of Europe and people go to extremes.

[Schroeder]

People got fed up with the current goons and thought it would be wise to teach them a lesson by either not voting or voting for PiS. Now that backfired royally and they'll have a pseudo democracy ala Russia soon with propaganda media and a corrupt justice system. I'm sure we'll see a lot of journalists being prosecuted for tax evasion and slave labor in the not so distant future.
But it's up to the Poles to remedy that now before it's too late. We shouldn't get involved or PiS will claim "foreign interventions against Poland".

That should also be a wake up call to all of our useless politicians. If people get too fed up then the dictatorship is just one botched election away.
I just doubt they'll learn that lesson.

[Oberon]

I'd say that we could boot them out of the EU if they don't shape up...but we're looking to bring Turkey in...so....

[Catfish]

^ You? Will be leaving the EU as soon as the referendum gets started.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Catfish

^ You? Will be leaving the EU as soon as the referendum gets started.

Fat chance ToffBoy or as Oberon would say Pig Man Cameron will stitch up the UK like a right royal kipper. He will do to us what was done to the Irish. They vote out and what happen the vote was rerunned to get the stay in answer.

[Respenus]

Originally Posted by STEED

Fat chance ToffBoy or as Oberon would say Pig Man Cameron will stitch up the UK like a right royal kipper. He will do to us what was done to the Irish. They vote out and what happen the vote was rerunned to get the stay in answer.

I do not wish to enter into a debate into what your PM will do concerning the re-negotiations of UK's relationship with the EU, however, I do wish to make a point concerning the Irish referendum.

The Irish, like the Danish before them in 1992, rejected a legal document or deal if you wish to call it that, not in its entirety (as if I remember, neither country wanted to exit the EU at that point or opposed wholesale its new rules), but certain elements that they felt infringed on their notion of how their country should cooperate with other Member States and the EEC/EU institutions.

They were, after the original negative referendum, offered a modified deal, which took into account their specific concerns, which they then passed. In the case of the Irish, 20% of those voting previously voting "No" were convinced to vote "For" the modified Lisbon treaty the second time around.

I realise that many across Europe consider this a "stinker" and as manipulation of the public will, however, like any other law, I personally see it as a second reading amendment/modification. As it often happens, not all parties were aware of the constraints they were working in, which occurs far more often than anyone in politics would like and leads to miscalculation and massive headaches (WWI being a very graphic example of such miscalculations).

Having said that, I have to say that what was done after the 2004 referendum was far more problematic from a democratic point of view and is, in my opinion, the reason behind the bad will surrounding the second Irish referendum.

--

As for Poland, things are going to hell in a handbasket. Things are far more critical than in Hungary, however, as Poland is/was a major source of inspiration for post-Soviet republics and its foreign policy of supporting reform and turning towards the West is going to suffer as a result. Furthermore, it is a member of Weimar Triangle or put differently, one of the Big Three continental Member States (no disrespect meant to Italy or Spain), so anything problematic going on there is going to influence the whole of the EU.

Poland turning to an Orban/Putin style leadership not slowly over time, but in a matter of a few months after its parliamentary elections does not bode well for anyone. I would not even be surprised if other Member States or the European Parliament - I am doubtful the Commission under Juncker would do so - threatened to use or even use Article 7 of the Treaty on the European Union (page 26, 27). It is the so-called "nuclear article", as it would ultimately and after a very long and politically fraught procedure end in the temporary suspension of voting rights of a Member State in case of the "existence of a serious and persistent breach by a Member State of the values /of the EU/".

With PiS apparently hell-bent to undo the last 8 years of Civic Platform governance, things are probably going to get a lot worse before they get better.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by STEED

Fat chance ToffBoy or as Oberon would say Pig Man Cameron will stitch up the UK like a right royal kipper. He will do to us what was done to the Irish. They vote out and what happen the vote was rerunned to get the stay in answer.

Originally Posted by Catfish

^ You? Will be leaving the EU as soon as the referendum gets started.

Actually, I have a feeling that Catfish might be right, there'd be chaos if Manbearpig tried to stitch this referendum up.
Believe me though Catfish, I will be voting to stay in the EU...even if I think the thing is doomed unless some backbone is shown amongst the top leaders of it in order to kick the nations like Poland and Hungary into line.

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by Catfish

For all that can be seen they are on the way into a dictatorship, wth has happened there?

You guys (Germany) could re-invade? Second time a charm? We need some new history anyway for computer games to be written from. WW2 as been done to death I think, and I'm ready for some fresh material!
Do you split Poland with Putin though?
Merkel... riding in an open hatch of a panzer FTW.
At least yousa guys have the cool matching music.
You do have a "Z Plan", don't you.

Don't worry Poland, Obama totally has your back covered.

[Reece]

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

Don't worry Poland, Obama totally has your back covered.

Not for long!!! Trump??

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

Don't worry Poland, Obama totally has your back covered.

Originally Posted by Reece

Not for long!!! Trump??

Simples....he'll build a large tall wall.

[Oberon]

Germany could always order a recall of the various parts of the Berlin wall that have immigrated since it came down. I know that there's one part outside the Imperial War Museum in London.

[Oberon]

Speaking of right wing populism, AFD will probably be doing well today.