GWX3.0 - Enemy visual detection ranges

[banryu79]

Hello fellow kaleuns!
I was reading the "Patrol Guidelines" postend in the "Wolfes At War" site and considering to use as my personal guidelines in my games as they look to me very well thought out and potentially useful.

Link:
http://wolvesatwar.org/wiki/index.ph...ing_the_Convoy

In the section about the uboat aspect presentend to the enemy ship and how this affect enemy visual detection range in different daylight conditions I red this passage:

For BOW ON and clear day with:
0 mps a ESCORT might detect you at around 4500
10 mps a ESCORT might detect you at around 3300

For BOW OFF (i.e. Side On) and clear day with:
0 mps a ESCORT might detect you at around 7400
10 mps a ESCORT might detect you at around 6000


For BOW ON and a clear night with:
0 mps a ESCORT might detect you at around 1200
10 mps a ESCORT might NOT detected you <-- NOTE!


For BOW OFF (i.e. Side On) and a clear night with:
0 mps a ESCORT might detect you at around 2800
10 mps a ESCORT might detect you at around 2000


Note that these are for ESCORTS, merchant ships are in comparison blind.

I do not undestand what the "mps" acronym (at least I think it is an acronym) stand for? Somebody who knows it can help me? I have the impression it could refer about sea condition, mybe wind speed, as it seems logical this aspect factor in visual conditions...

Also, and this is a question for the experienced kaleuns here, would you confirm or deny these values, based on you personal experience (with GWX or NYGM as a context)?

I am really intrested in knowing about these matters!

[Pisces]

I am not totally sure. But windspeed in meters per second makes the most sense. As that dictates the state of the waves, and is a big factor in your detection.

Own ship speed and target speed is usually in knots. 10 m(iles) per second would imply that, whatever the thing is that is moving, it is in (extremely) low orbit around the earth.

For comparison: 1 knot is 0.514 meters/ second. Or 1 meter/second is 1.94 knots, or just 2 to make it simple.

p.s. I have no idea if these values are correct. I never play chicken with destroyers. Or made records of distances when I was detected. Perhaps not very wise.

[captgeo]

mps=, is meter's per second

and thanks for that find, great info, just wonder if the SIM knows this?

[banryu79]

Originally Posted by captgeo

mps=, is meter's per second

and thanks for that find, great info, just wonder if the SIM knows this?

Stock SH3 no way, surely GWX mod is better in this regard; the question is: how much better? Hence my request for comments by experts.

I cannot speak for NYGM, I still have to try it or read about in the relevant forum sections, but I hope it also mitigate the sensor capabilities of the enemy AI in a way to permit (before radar) the conduction of sensible night surface attacks.

Again, how much the numbers quoted above are consistent with your personal experience? My only direct experience is as follow:
- night, clear sky with no moon, wind speed very low (4 or less), uboat at all stop with deck awash, uboat is pointing directly at enemy ship track (AoB 90°) so I'm presenting my uboat side to her.
- Contact at 8000 m., no problem.
- Contact start zig-zagging (along same course) at about 4200 m.

So I can relate the described situation with this one:

For BOW OFF (i.e. Side On) and a clear night with:
0 mps a ESCORT might detect you at around 2800
10 mps a ESCORT might detect you at around 2000
Note that these are for ESCORTS, merchant ships are in comparison blind.

But my contact is a merchant ship, and as it look likes not blind at all...

I need to compare others experiences, please post yours!

[Mittelwaechter]

This game is worth to replay due to these "factors of uncertainty".

Your speed, your targets speed, the sea state, the over all visibility, the experience of the target crew, your visual aspect, the targets equipment - plus a random multiplier or two...

Try a single mission with different settings (environment/speed/experience) and you'll see there is no fixed safe distance.


Stay as stealthy as possible and sink 'em all!

[Zosimus]

I figure if you can see him, then he can see you. Whether two locations can see each other is usually based on the height of each. A tall structure can be seen from far away, and if you stand on it you can see further. Whenever I encounter a ship, I immediately ask my watch officer for a range. Then I try to stay outside that range while I set myself up ahead of the target. With the 16 km atmosphere mod, you just stay 17 km away from the corvettes while going end around unless the visibility is limited.

[banryu79]

Originally Posted by Mittelwaechter

Try a single mission with different settings (environment/speed/experience) and you'll see there is no fixed safe distance.


Stay as stealthy as possible and sink 'em all!

Yeah mate, I already know all that and behave accordingly.
My intent here is to gather some data from other Kaleuns and digest it (along with my direct in-game experiences, of course) to develop a "better" feeling...

[suitednate]

Playing GWX in fall 1939.....Not too long ago I actually derped up with time compression while trying to get back into attack position again on a convoy after finishing off a straggling cripple. This all happened in the middle of the night as well.

Well I was on 64 or 128 TC when all of a sudden my WO says "warship spotted". I go to the bridge and a destroyer is headed right towards me head on at about 600 meters!!!! I'm just like "oh god".. "Thanks for the prompt notice mr watch officer!! You couldn't warn me a bit earlier??!! You !!" (Visibility on this night was pretty good, bright red on fog meter and low winds)

Then I DONT crash dive and just keep steaming straight ahead and the destroyer passes me on my starboard side at literally about 2-300 meters. He kept steaming straight on towards the vicinity of the now sunken cripple. I was just like "that just happened". He must have heard the cries of help from the merchant I had just finished off a few kms back but how in the world did he not see me??!!

I don't know if this had anything to do with it (it should at least) but I hit this same escort with a torpedo the previous morning as I was waiting to finish off his dead-in-the-water escort buddy with a second shot. He had been coming straight toward me so I shot him head on and to my dismay, one torpedo did not do the job (just like his buddy), but after he got hit, instead of continuing after me, he ran away and high-tailed it back to the convoy. So maybe because of this damage he had a reduced ability to do see me? He had reduced efficiency due to dead crew? Or was it a program glitch?

[Zosimus]

Some people here have suggested that damaged destroyers always return to the convoy. I can't explain any of the rest.

[maillemaker]

I don't know if this had anything to do with it (it should at least) but I hit this same escort with a torpedo the previous morning as I was waiting to finish off his dead-in-the-water escort buddy with a second shot. He had been coming straight toward me so I shot him head on and to my dismay, one torpedo did not do the job (just like his buddy), but after he got hit, instead of continuing after me, he ran away and high-tailed it back to the convoy.

This is absolutely true; I have seen it many times. I saw it with two separate destroyers in the same convoy last night.

Damaged escorts return to formation and will not pursue you. They should, and will, however, fire on you if they see you. They just won't move to pursue.

I don't know why.

Steve

[banryu79]

Intresting experience, suitednate!

Anybody has some "hard numbers" to share about the ship-aspect-presentetd/sea-state/light-conditions/range-to-enemy "detection equation" variables?

[Pistoliero]

Originally Posted by banryu79

Intresting experience, suitednate!

Anybody has some "hard numbers" to share about the ship-aspect-presentetd/sea-state/light-conditions/range-to-enemy "detection equation" variables?

It is impossible to deduct "hard numbers" because you never know enemy crew qualification level. It matters and a lot.

[banryu79]

Originally Posted by Pistoliero

It is impossible to deduct "hard numbers" because you never know enemy crew qualification level. It matters and a lot.

Good remark, Pistoliero, thanks
I forget about that aspect, it is another "variable" of the "detection equation".
I suppose my questions tells a lot of how much green I am with the game, I still have to experience a lot... But I'm too curious to retain my questions

I once more invite fellow kaleuns to post theri personal experiences and impression about the thread subject, I'm very intrested in hear (well, read) them

[BigWalleye]

Originally Posted by banryu79

Good remark, Pistoliero, thanks
I forget about that aspect, it is another "variable" of the "detection equation".
I suppose my questions tells a lot of how much green I am with the game, I still have to experience a lot... But I'm too curious to retain my questions

I once more invite fellow kaleuns to post theri personal experiences and impression about the thread subject, I'm very intrested in hear (well, read) them

There is also the "up sun/down sun" and "up moon/down moon" factor. I understand this is built into SH4, and I presume it is in SH3 also.

[Tupolev]

Enemy AI detection ranges are highly dependent on which mods you are using; especially environment mods.

The settings sim.cfg file are also a huge factor in enemy visual detection. I would say if you're curious about your aspect ratio and speed will effect it, take a look at the Enemy Surface Factor and Enemy Speed Factor under the Visual block.

WARNING: This could possibly be a spoiler for how you play the game. View at your own risk.

3X WARNING: I highly recommend not fiddling with any of these settings for your game (don't ask why I know this). The excellent modders who set those settings did so for a very, very, very good reason....

Anyway, for NYGM at least, both aspect and speed are HUGE in staying unnoticed. I've been able to get crazy (~1000m close to escorts even while they're alerted to me (torpedo impacts) minding my speed and staying bow/stern on. The sea state seems to be very much secondary to speed and aspect, though. A lot of my failed convoy approaches happen in rough seas, not calm, because I think I can go faster.

T