La Belgique

Captain Birdseye · 03-11-14, 10:04 AM

Hi everyone,

After a sneaky raid into Hull docks, where I claimed an unknown merchant (I had the mark on the map from a previous report, i'll pretend the hydrophone operator could hear repair works being carried out) I set back into the north sea.

Imagine my suprise when coming across two juicy merchants, a quick glance at their flag and i'm sure they are French! one torpedo gone and one is limping, ready to sink. Then I spot something, due to the low sun, the "French" flags were actually Belgian! This is Sept 1939, i've made a massive error.

I dived to periscope depth thinking the merchants would radio my position in.

My question is, in reality, what repercussions would this have on me as a Captain? would I be taken out and shot when I docked back at Kiel or did I do the right thing by submerging and hoping for the best?

Thanks (haven't had that much of a buzz since GWX 3 years ago

)

tat501 · 03-11-14, 02:45 PM

These things happen. Technically you are in the wrong and you could expect a court martial - but historically the Kriegsmarine didn't like putting their own captains on trial for only doing their jobs. Exclusion zones were set up - and later in the war neutral nations (like America) were warned not to sail into certain areas - and that their safety could not be guaranteed if they did so. Legally - this isn't really enough to comply with the Geneva conventions and other rules of war - but that was what they had to go by - and U-boat commanders were told to sink darkened ships within the exlusion zone - or those zig-zagging for example.

What were the weather conditions/visibility? You should argue they were carrying contraband to an enemy power and were within the exclusion zone - and in poor weather you thought their flag to be that of an enemy nation!

sir_drinkalot · 03-11-14, 04:17 PM

As I mentioned in another topic: there was a case in which a German u-boat sunk an American destroyer or something of the sorts, before the US joined the war. As tat501, they were warned that such things could happen.

A lone merchant, carrying goods for the enemy is not such a big deal. Worse things have happened during the war. For example, the sinking of the Athenia (correct me if I got the name wrong). A civilian passenger ship got sunk by a u-boat. The captain thought it was carrying troops. And because the Kriegsmarine didn't like putting their own captains on trial, as tat501 said, they falsified reports and logs to cover it all up.

tat501 · 03-11-14, 07:30 PM

Yeah it was the sinking of the ocean liners like the Lusitania (with the loss of 128 American lives) that really was the straw that broke the camel's back for Wilson and Congress and led to America joining the first war.

I sank a hospital ship in heavy fog once in SH5 (off the West Coast of Ireland). I felt pretty bad about it. If I'd have been in charge of my U-boat I would have done my best to rescue all the survivors I could and land them ashore in neutral Ireland - orders from BDU be damned - but I couldn't because its a game...

Captain Birdseye · 03-11-14, 07:42 PM

Thanks guys, I did send a patrol report after I discovered what nation it belonged to (even though it was a nice big juicy 7900 tonne merchant).

Weather was fair, the sea was choppy but the sun was just rising after a 2 day storm, so I was convinced she was a French freighter, she had a little ~1000t steamer with her, they were travelling pretty much parallel to the English east coast towards Scotland, I don't think i'll end this career this time.

I love stuff like this, really sets the atmosphere

thanks again

Peter Cremer · 03-15-14, 04:04 PM

It's been a while since I read the book on this, but there an American sub somewhere in the South Pacific in the last months of WWII that mistakenly sank a Japanese ship that was marked as a hospital ship and had been guaranteed safe passage by the U.S. The route the ship was to take had been sent to all ships and subs in the area. While this was a major boo-boo at the time, the sub captains career was not seriously damaged since he eventually made Admiral. It was later found out that the ship was seriously overloaded with high ranking Japanese personnel (military and civilian) and the tons of treasure they had looted from all the countries they had been stationed in. There was a great loss of life and as far as I know the treasure is still in the ship. I believe the ships name was AWA MARU.

Sailor Steve · 03-15-14, 05:48 PM

Just to set the record straight, not only were u-boat kaleuns not court-martialed for sinking neutral ships, there were several u-boats which sank friendly (German or Italian) ships. Those captains were tried, but every one was found not guilty on the basis of the sunk merchant being either in a restricted area or disguised as an Allied ship to avoid attacks from that direction.

03-11-14, 10:04 AM	#1
Captain Birdseye Watch Officer Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sat behind my desk at BdU tapping away on my Enigma machine. Posts: 339 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 0	La Belgique Hi everyone, After a sneaky raid into Hull docks, where I claimed an unknown merchant (I had the mark on the map from a previous report, i'll pretend the hydrophone operator could hear repair works being carried out) I set back into the north sea. Imagine my suprise when coming across two juicy merchants, a quick glance at their flag and i'm sure they are French! one torpedo gone and one is limping, ready to sink. Then I spot something, due to the low sun, the "French" flags were actually Belgian! This is Sept 1939, i've made a massive error. I dived to periscope depth thinking the merchants would radio my position in. My question is, in reality, what repercussions would this have on me as a Captain? would I be taken out and shot when I docked back at Kiel or did I do the right thing by submerging and hoping for the best? Thanks (haven't had that much of a buzz since GWX 3 years ago ) __________________

03-11-14, 07:42 PM	#5
Captain Birdseye Watch Officer Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sat behind my desk at BdU tapping away on my Enigma machine. Posts: 339 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 0	Thanks guys, I did send a patrol report after I discovered what nation it belonged to (even though it was a nice big juicy 7900 tonne merchant). Weather was fair, the sea was choppy but the sun was just rising after a 2 day storm, so I was convinced she was a French freighter, she had a little ~1000t steamer with her, they were travelling pretty much parallel to the English east coast towards Scotland, I don't think i'll end this career this time. I love stuff like this, really sets the atmosphere thanks again __________________

03-15-14, 05:48 PM	#7
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Just to set the record straight, not only were u-boat kaleuns not court-martialed for sinking neutral ships, there were several u-boats which sank friendly (German or Italian) ships. Those captains were tried, but every one was found not guilty on the basis of the sunk merchant being either in a restricted area or disguised as an Allied ship to avoid attacks from that direction. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

03-11-14, 02:45 PM	#2
tat501 Helmsman Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: London Posts: 108 Downloads: 275 Uploads: 0	These things happen. Technically you are in the wrong and you could expect a court martial - but historically the Kriegsmarine didn't like putting their own captains on trial for only doing their jobs. Exclusion zones were set up - and later in the war neutral nations (like America) were warned not to sail into certain areas - and that their safety could not be guaranteed if they did so. Legally - this isn't really enough to comply with the Geneva conventions and other rules of war - but that was what they had to go by - and U-boat commanders were told to sink darkened ships within the exlusion zone - or those zig-zagging for example. What were the weather conditions/visibility? You should argue they were carrying contraband to an enemy power and were within the exclusion zone - and in poor weather you thought their flag to be that of an enemy nation!

03-11-14, 04:17 PM	#3
sir_drinkalot Watch Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 15 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	As I mentioned in another topic: there was a case in which a German u-boat sunk an American destroyer or something of the sorts, before the US joined the war. As tat501, they were warned that such things could happen. A lone merchant, carrying goods for the enemy is not such a big deal. Worse things have happened during the war. For example, the sinking of the Athenia (correct me if I got the name wrong). A civilian passenger ship got sunk by a u-boat. The captain thought it was carrying troops. And because the Kriegsmarine didn't like putting their own captains on trial, as tat501 said, they falsified reports and logs to cover it all up.

03-11-14, 07:30 PM	#4
tat501 Helmsman Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: London Posts: 108 Downloads: 275 Uploads: 0	Yeah it was the sinking of the ocean liners like the Lusitania (with the loss of 128 American lives) that really was the straw that broke the camel's back for Wilson and Congress and led to America joining the first war. I sank a hospital ship in heavy fog once in SH5 (off the West Coast of Ireland). I felt pretty bad about it. If I'd have been in charge of my U-boat I would have done my best to rescue all the survivors I could and land them ashore in neutral Ireland - orders from BDU be damned - but I couldn't because its a game...

03-15-14, 04:04 PM	#6
Peter Cremer Machinist's Mate Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Usually in the past.... Posts: 121 Downloads: 144 Uploads: 0	It's been a while since I read the book on this, but there an American sub somewhere in the South Pacific in the last months of WWII that mistakenly sank a Japanese ship that was marked as a hospital ship and had been guaranteed safe passage by the U.S. The route the ship was to take had been sent to all ships and subs in the area. While this was a major boo-boo at the time, the sub captains career was not seriously damaged since he eventually made Admiral. It was later found out that the ship was seriously overloaded with high ranking Japanese personnel (military and civilian) and the tons of treasure they had looted from all the countries they had been stationed in. There was a great loss of life and as far as I know the treasure is still in the ship. I believe the ships name was AWA MARU.