What would happen if you...

desertstriker · 03-09-14, 02:02 AM

You know I have always wondered what would happen if all the megamods were all mixed together in the same install. I am just to lazy to do it myself

not to mention I would prefer not to have my computer blow up in my face.
I have a hard time believing nobody has done it before

but if not my theory is the game would either be completely unplayable or "if" done properly become the ultimate SH3 game.
Thoughts? answers? Aiming the deck gun at my head?

Kielhauler1961 · 03-09-14, 03:31 AM

I've been playing SH3 since it came out and GWX ubermod since 2007 and I still feel I haven't even scratched the surface of that combination. There just aren't enough hours in the year to drive every boat in every theatre in every year with every mod. Not having played LSH or NYGM I can't comment on their gameplay but see from this forum that each supermod has its own devotees and critics. Maybe it's better to keep them separate to suit the range of individual tastes?

I hope one day to get around to trying LSH and NYGM but to paraphrase Nathan Hale: I only regret that I have but one life to give to Silent Hunter. If the ultimate 'subsim' were ever available, I don't think many of us would keep our jobs or relationships for very long afterwards.

KH

Pisces · 03-09-14, 07:12 AM

I think plenty (newbies) have tried (unknowingly), and in the end found out that you can't apply one supermod after the other. It just doesn't work.

Each mod team made decisions on what they wanted to emphasize and didn't care about. The hallmark of diversity! That lead to changes in certain data values in a whole bunch of files. But few changes were made in the same spots in the same files with the same value. So if you wanted to merge everything, you'd have to make choices yourself as to which mod-team had the best value for a specific parameter. And this has consequences for other parameters in other files because of gameplay-balancing. As few changes stand on their own. Aside from needing to know each specific change in each file, of each supermod (a gargantuan task), you would need to merge the underlying reason that caused them to change it that way. And that is simply impossible.

Sailor Steve · 03-09-14, 09:10 AM

All of the supermods change a great many of the same files. Whichever is installed last will overwrite the ones installed before. Bits will be left over, conflict and inevitably cause a crash.

It is possible to pick and choose which pieces you like best from each supermod and combine them to make your own, but not only would that take weeks or even months of work but you would almost certainly have conflicts that you would then have to resolve. This is the problem encountered by supermod makers in the first place. Also, most supermods aren't just a combination of different mods. They also involve dedicated modders and some programmers to create their own parts and combine them the way they want. Trying to dig through that would take someone with programming experience and the knowledge and willingness to find out what the other guys did in the first place.

Many years ago someone requested a "combined" supermod containing the best of each. My reply was similar to the paragraph above, but I also had to ask "What do you consider the 'best' of each supermod? GWX's graphics with NYGM's AI routines? Or do you like GWX's AI and LSH3's graphics? WAC's campaign with LSH3's graphics but with GWX's sea life and blimps?" The problem is that everybody has their own idea of what's "best", and no two players will ever agree on that.

So no, trying to combine supermods is not a good idea.

Kielhauler1961 · 03-09-14, 09:47 AM

This thread has rekindled my desire to try the other supermods for comparison with GWX, but I have a couple of questions for the experts:

I understand it is possible to have multiple installs of SH3 so does it also follow that one could have, say, three installs, each with a different supermod?

I'd like to try LSH and NYGM but how should they be installed so as not to conflict with each other?

How would SH3 Commander cope with multiple careers across different supermods?

I've got my current setup with GWX Gold running sweetly and I don't want to upset it...

KH

Pisces · 03-09-14, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kielhauler1961

This thread has rekindled my desire to try the other supermods for comparison with GWX, but I have a couple of questions for the experts:

I understand it is possible to have multiple installs of SH3 so does it also follow that one could have, say, three installs, each with a different supermod?

That's exactly why you would want multiple installs of the game. What would be the use of 2 identical stock-SH3 installs side by side?

Quote:

I'd like to try LSH and NYGM but how should they be installed so as not to conflict with each other?

You must have a copy of a freshly installed SH3 (patches depending on the requirements of the mod). Then make a copy of the entire folder and give it another name. MultiSH3 must be used to keep seperate "SH3" savegame folders in your Documents folder. As the game expect only those 3 characters in the name by default. MultiSH3 hacks the game (or whatever voodoo it does) to link to other 3 character name folders, that are dedicated to the specific (super)mod-install of the game.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=98608

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=1869

Quote:

How would SH3 Commander cope with multiple careers across different supermods?

You need a seperate install of SH3 Commander for each supermod install that you want to play with. As each has to point to it's specific game folder.

Quote:

I've got my current setup with GWX Gold running sweetly and I don't want to upset it...

KH

You can keep the current folder, to be used with MultiSH3 later. But a new clean installation of the game is required for other mod-installs. (rename the current one and make a copy as a backup to be safe) Ie installing NYGM over this GWX is not an option, as previously explained.

Kielhauler1961 · 03-09-14, 10:59 AM

Pisces,

Thank you for the links and the clear, comprehensive and speedy reply. I'll get my two boats currently at sea back to port and then start the process. Although I've had the sim a long time there have been several years between playing periods and some big gaps in my education where mods are concerned. You have neatly closed that gap.

Much appreciated

KH

desertstriker · 03-09-14, 01:26 PM

This was one of those 3 AM drunk with no sleep in 40 hour ideas

sounded pretty good at the time but after 6 hours of sleep it does sound like a PITA to do and not very practical. But still would be pretty cool to combine parts of what is liked about each mod.

03-09-14, 02:02 AM	#1
desertstriker Eternal Patrol Join Date: May 2012 Location: mod soup bar and grill Posts: 1,756 Downloads: 998 Uploads: 0	What would happen if you... You know I have always wondered what would happen if all the megamods were all mixed together in the same install. I am just to lazy to do it myself not to mention I would prefer not to have my computer blow up in my face. I have a hard time believing nobody has done it before but if not my theory is the game would either be completely unplayable or "if" done properly become the ultimate SH3 game. Thoughts? answers? Aiming the deck gun at my head?

03-09-14, 09:10 AM	#4
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	All of the supermods change a great many of the same files. Whichever is installed last will overwrite the ones installed before. Bits will be left over, conflict and inevitably cause a crash. It is possible to pick and choose which pieces you like best from each supermod and combine them to make your own, but not only would that take weeks or even months of work but you would almost certainly have conflicts that you would then have to resolve. This is the problem encountered by supermod makers in the first place. Also, most supermods aren't just a combination of different mods. They also involve dedicated modders and some programmers to create their own parts and combine them the way they want. Trying to dig through that would take someone with programming experience and the knowledge and willingness to find out what the other guys did in the first place. Many years ago someone requested a "combined" supermod containing the best of each. My reply was similar to the paragraph above, but I also had to ask "What do you consider the 'best' of each supermod? GWX's graphics with NYGM's AI routines? Or do you like GWX's AI and LSH3's graphics? WAC's campaign with LSH3's graphics but with GWX's sea life and blimps?" The problem is that everybody has their own idea of what's "best", and no two players will ever agree on that. So no, trying to combine supermods is not a good idea. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

03-09-14, 03:31 AM	#2
Kielhauler1961 中国水兵 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: East of the Firth of Forth Posts: 273 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I've been playing SH3 since it came out and GWX ubermod since 2007 and I still feel I haven't even scratched the surface of that combination. There just aren't enough hours in the year to drive every boat in every theatre in every year with every mod. Not having played LSH or NYGM I can't comment on their gameplay but see from this forum that each supermod has its own devotees and critics. Maybe it's better to keep them separate to suit the range of individual tastes? I hope one day to get around to trying LSH and NYGM but to paraphrase Nathan Hale: I only regret that I have but one life to give to Silent Hunter. If the ultimate 'subsim' were ever available, I don't think many of us would keep our jobs or relationships for very long afterwards. KH

03-09-14, 07:12 AM	#3
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	I think plenty (newbies) have tried (unknowingly), and in the end found out that you can't apply one supermod after the other. It just doesn't work. Each mod team made decisions on what they wanted to emphasize and didn't care about. The hallmark of diversity! That lead to changes in certain data values in a whole bunch of files. But few changes were made in the same spots in the same files with the same value. So if you wanted to merge everything, you'd have to make choices yourself as to which mod-team had the best value for a specific parameter. And this has consequences for other parameters in other files because of gameplay-balancing. As few changes stand on their own. Aside from needing to know each specific change in each file, of each supermod (a gargantuan task), you would need to merge the underlying reason that caused them to change it that way. And that is simply impossible.

03-09-14, 09:47 AM	#5
Kielhauler1961 中国水兵 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: East of the Firth of Forth Posts: 273 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	This thread has rekindled my desire to try the other supermods for comparison with GWX, but I have a couple of questions for the experts: I understand it is possible to have multiple installs of SH3 so does it also follow that one could have, say, three installs, each with a different supermod? I'd like to try LSH and NYGM but how should they be installed so as not to conflict with each other? How would SH3 Commander cope with multiple careers across different supermods? I've got my current setup with GWX Gold running sweetly and I don't want to upset it... KH

03-09-14, 10:59 AM	#7
Kielhauler1961 中国水兵 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: East of the Firth of Forth Posts: 273 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Pisces, Thank you for the links and the clear, comprehensive and speedy reply. I'll get my two boats currently at sea back to port and then start the process. Although I've had the sim a long time there have been several years between playing periods and some big gaps in my education where mods are concerned. You have neatly closed that gap. Much appreciated KH

03-09-14, 01:26 PM	#8
desertstriker Eternal Patrol Join Date: May 2012 Location: mod soup bar and grill Posts: 1,756 Downloads: 998 Uploads: 0	This was one of those 3 AM drunk with no sleep in 40 hour ideas sounded pretty good at the time but after 6 hours of sleep it does sound like a PITA to do and not very practical. But still would be pretty cool to combine parts of what is liked about each mod.